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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

im based in kenya and hav been to this site many times, the most advanced tech ive come across is here. thank you to all i have got many ideas from you.
in kenya we have the 'rhino charge' as our main event (its searchable on the net). its more like the australian tuff truck challenge but not fast, and not as extreme and closed circuit as american rock crawl.
cars are bulit by the owers, there are no vendors and importing stuff is too expensive for most and impossible for me.
favourite car is the 3.5l range rover.
these days pple are fitting in unimog axles of which i am interested in creating hybrid ones.
and would like youre comments/suggestions.

i have a stretched samurai (90 inch) coiled with detroit locked range rover axles. ratio on those is 3.5 vs 4.5 (aprox) on sami, plus i have 31 inch wheels. so to counter that i put in a second gearbox. yes 4 gears. instead of two more like you guys do adding another tranny. cost me 150 bucks to do....
so my ratios are ok and now i need the diff clearance. i dont want bigger wheels as the engine is tiny (1600 efi on its way but i need it for the mud not for heavier wheels)

so i wanna put on mog drop boxes to my range rover axles.

what do i need to consider and how do i correct it?

what i have so far

1) welding up of rover and mog shafts together
engineers commonly groove and weld up heavy truck shafts here and they do the job satisfactorily.

2) axle housing twist.
re enforce it? But how?

3) high steer arms
any designs or drawings available? The ones I have seen are big bulky things, anyone with a ‘lite’ design?

4) 16 inch wheels
they need to fit cause no money for new rims and wheels. I will get the existing rover rim re plated with 8 lug hole design. Ive read 16’s can fit is this true?

5) i hear mog diffs overheat badly how do i solve this? esp with 16 inch rims tightly hugging the hub. some special synthetic oil needed? It’s a trailer queen so no tarmac driving. Tho the charge is a 10 hr event!
forget about disc brake conversion!

6) what else?

thanks in advance

will post pics soon
 

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You can fab your own disc convertion with just about any calipers you can find. there are people that use ford brakes, even corvette disc brakes as well there is a guy by the name off 68 crawler that has a set of hybrid /9 axles on his truck you can use some of his ideas for the rover/mog hybrids. I think the toyota/mog hybrid would be a cheaper option since there are so many toyotas and nissans over there
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks gpete.
youre right toy axles are plentiful, strong and decent std legth. ratio is better than rover too. howvere i had the rover axles lying arnd with lockers in them so in they went.
i dont wanna fab too much more. hardly used the rig so far and want to put in the drive time rather than work time.
so for now ill put up with the weight of the drum system and maybe later change to disc if its as easy as you say. and relaible.
assuming this project is at all viable.

i think axle bind is where im really getting stuck. would 31 inch wheels and the weight of a samurai bind a rover axle?

ratios on 31 tires shoudnt be too bad. cause of the 3.54 ratio rover axle in the second gbox i run gear 2 normally and 1 for rocks. i think ill just use 4 and 3 if the portals go in.

how much would the complete portal box weigh?
 

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A complete portal axle weighs about 600 for the front axle and 700lbs for the rear have you ever considered a diferet transfer case and one gearbox? Can you post some pictures of your rig
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
im trying to figure out how to post pics, no luck, im not very computer literate...

thought about buying a gear kit for stock samurai trans, but read about fitting in a volvo gearbox in place of teh shft that conects the g box and tranny so did that instead as it was way cheaper and gave me teh flexibility of high and low ratio depending on terrain.

it viberates and is very noisy. so maybe itll be srapped. i dont know yet.
it does help distribute torque over three units tho...

i actually have access to fitting in teh whol mog diff, but the weight and that long pinion dont work for me. hence thinking hybrid. also dont want to fabricate mountings and all that again.

read about the toybox and wow i might be stopped in my tracks here. will i end up reverse rotating the drop box????

whats flipping the diff mean?


so can we say 50 lbs for the drop boxes alone? they are cast i belive which is shocking!
 

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Wow the rhino charge. I actually was in Kenya a coupel months ago and met up with a coupld of guys that run it every year. From hearing about the competition I don't think you need to worry as much about the clearance just need to know the limits of the truck.

If you are worried about paying for lockers for toy diffs then I wouldn't mess with trying to create a rover mog hybrid. It's not going to be cheap or easy. BUt if you are set on it I would graft in the axles whole. What type of suspension are you running on the Sami? If it is leaves you should be able to extend the wheelbase by flipping the spings and making longer outriggers. If it's not springs you can move the mounting points for any linked suspension to give you more wheelbase. Honestly though you're up against more stock vehicles anyway so I would concentrate on learning how to drive your truck.

Gpete correct me if I'm wrong but what I understood was the Rhino Charge is a A to B race with no set course. You can drive any way possible and the person who drives in the least amount of distance wins. There is a pre set amount of time that you have but it really isn't a speed race more of a strategy and who has the biggest balls race. Most of the trucks that I heard were in the race were lightly modified 75 series landcruiser and some range rovers and a couple of Samis. I heard there was even a series land rover last year that did all right.

With the terrian over there I wouldn't hesitate to run 33s with those rover axles even locked up. I know that availability of sizes is somewhat limited but I know I saw some 265/85 in the local brand (can't think of it now) I think you could do quite well with lockers and 33 inch tires.

I don't know if you know him but we stayed with Alex at Campi ya Tembo in the Masai Mura and we got to talking about this race. I told him about my F-toy and he offered to have it shipped over for the race. I think people would shit if they saw that thing. Well maybe some day I'll make it over for the race. It sounds insane.

-ben
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yep that the charge all right.

As it’s a charity event there are lots of old bangers that do the event, but the serious guys do have some pretty trick cars but again, theyre more in the direction of tuff truck than rock crawl because of the nature of the event.
Out of 55 max entries at least 20 are looking to do some damage. I think this year there were at least 5 mog axled rigs and 2 volvo axled rigs. 3 rovers had full scorpion suspension (uk) kits and arb lockers and simex tires were all over the place. At least 3 or 4 standard unimogs regularly enter. They drive over bushes like they aren’t there. Id probably get catapaulted of off them in the sami!
30 to 33 tires are the norm, the friends I entered with this year had something like 44’ truck tires! (range rover on mog axles)

Basically the trucks are evolving as more money gets chucked in as it is with all sports.

Youre truck would probably be impressive and incorporating the local requirements shoudldnt be difficiult, got 5 hrs worth of fuel on it for example? But I think that the competition here these days is quite ok.
Bring it down I say! Close friend is running logistics for a dutch team with a very imressive wrangler I believe. The south Africans are here every year. British army too and lots of expats.

As it’s a charity event you need to collect arnd usd 8000 to be able to enter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
so guys back to the main question.

i am against fitting whole mog axle because of:
1) weight
2) too low ratio for our conditions
3) additonal fab work
4) pinion legth
5) third memeber location ( i havent checked that tho)

i am for fitting the complete axle because
1) i doubt i can break it once its in there

i am against fitting hybrid axles because
1) welding up of axle shafts
2) axle housing binding
3) portals heat up

i am for hybrid axles because
1) lighter
2) more usable end ratio (rover center is 3.54 X portal ratio)
3) the rover axle is already fitted in and pinion angle etc is great

SO!
assuming a zero cost factor what would you guys do?
there is no other options but below 3
1) leave as is on rover axles
2) full mog axles
3) hybrid axle.

note i am using normal rubber bushes and oe rover arms to locate the axle not johnny joints (i think theyre called that!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
attaching the poral box alone would not reverse rotate the whole thing would it?

ie if teh axle shaft is rotating clockise so woud the portal hub right?

or do i have to flip the diff whatever that means!
 

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attaching the poral box alone would not reverse rotate the whole thing would it?
Yes, you would end up having to run your diffs upside down which can create oiling issues, there are guys running Ford 9" Mog hybrids that have figured out ways around the oiling issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
its slowly looking pointless going hybrid isnt it?

somebody with a full mog axle under their sammy pls advise regarding diff offset etc. and what are teh main difficulties putting in a whole axle under there.

whats the cheapest i can get the pinion conversion bits in canada? and high steer too.

we drive on the other side of the road here...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
the axles i have acces to are 416 axles not 406.
5 inch offset on the wrong side for the front already an issue..
rear is ok
and damn theyre big!

can the standard sami brake cylinder do the job?
 

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I would stilll fit the whole axles if you are set on running mog axles. It will be the easiest in the end. You might have to graft another transfercase in to match the drops. It would be easier to do that than try and change the offset of the axle.

Although it is possible and several people have done it. You can flip the axle ends on 416s I believe since they are the clam shell type, but I believe that the locker actuation is a designed for the short side to be on one side and the long on the other but I'm not positive.

Might want to jump over to either the Sami section or the Mog section. I know the mog section isn't usually that active but there are some very knowledgeable people over there. I know of at least two Sami's that have mog axles but I think they are both 404s if I remember correctly.

Best of luck and take some pictures of the charge I want to see what it is actually like. In all honestly though a sami on 35s with some gearing and a decent engine is going to go places that a lot of other vehicles won't just because it's so light and small. The ratios on the mog axles are going to slow you down but you'll still be able to go 80 k/m with those axles. I still vote leave it get some bigger tires and drive it a whole bunch.

-ben
 

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hybrid

I would stilll fit the whole axles if you are set on running mog axles. It will be the easiest in the end. You might have to graft another transfercase in to match the drops. It would be easier to do that than try and change the offset of the axle.

Although it is possible and several people have done it. You can flip the axle ends on 416s I believe since they are the clam shell type, but I believe that the locker actuation is a designed for the short side to be on one side and the long on the other but I'm not positive.

Might want to jump over to either the Sami section or the Mog section. I know the mog section isn't usually that active but there are some very knowledgeable people over there. I know of at least two Sami's that have mog axles but I think they are both 404s if I remember correctly.

Best of luck and take some pictures of the charge I want to see what it is actually like. In all honestly though a sami on 35s with some gearing and a decent engine is going to go places that a lot of other vehicles won't just because it's so light and small. The ratios on the mog axles are going to slow you down but you'll still be able to go 80 k/m with those axles. I still vote leave it get some bigger tires and drive it a whole bunch.

-ben
X2 get some bigger tires and have fun
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
i think you guys are probably right it is very lite the way it is and should be very capable ( i havent even been offroad yet! fuel pump failed just before i got to do anything!)
but of for the charge a huge front bumper is required, my hydro winches will weigh 60kg each (2 of em), 4 pple in the car, 1 spare wheel, 30 liters fuel, bridging ladders, plus armouring up the rig.

thats alot of weight! all on the rover axles. will they survive?

all three diffs i wrecked the pin in the diff carrier is what gave way and wrecked the crown wheel, pinion and housing. the shafts were always intact. it was a standard range rover on the same 31 wheels.

ive now got detroit centers.

80kph isnt a problem, but it is if takes a half hour to get to that speed! thers lots of loose soil and gravel to get up so ratios dont help there. ill need good acceleration.

also thanks guys for the input. im sure my build is still in teh dark ages comapred to whats on here.
 
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