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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am looking at making a Hydraulic tube bender and I have done a lot of research but am not sure on one thing. Anyone ever make one using an Air hydraulic pump instead of an electric one.
I have seen two people that have made hydraulic tube benders but both were electric. Any Air hydraulic people out there.

This is the pump I am look at:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40611

And this is the ram I am looking at:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...=on&TEST=Y&productId=200042674&categoryId=425

OR

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...TOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=413201&categoryId=425

I know this is a double acting ram but am also wondering if you can plug the one end and use it as a single.

Will this work?
 

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I use a Nike air over hydro pump for my Pro-Tools 105 bender. It works just fine. As for the rams, I bought the one specific to my bender from Pro-Tools but the ones you showed should work fine.

I don't think I would plug the port not being used as it needs to vent for proper movement.
 

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Had the air on my Model 3 bender, slow and used alot of air. The worst problem was not being able to bend a full 90 without having to re-pin the die. For those that have a bender you will know what I am talking about.

Finally I made my own mount and used a 24" double acting cylinder so I could make those bends in one sweep, used a electric over hydralic pump and three position valve. The power return is nice also over the spring return most air systems use.

:)
 

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Everybody I've talked to who's got an air-over-hydro bender setup says theirs is really slow. Usually in the line of commenting that mine is really fast.

Also, I have a DA cylinder, plumbed with a standard directional valve, so I don't have to manually retract it or bend against spring retract. More complex setup, but IMHO, a more production-friendly one. Sure makes it nice to work with, anyway--nowhere near as exhausting as it once was, to build cool stuff. :)
 

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Agreed on the speed of the air over! LOL It does use a lot of air and you do have to repin the die for a full 90* bend, twice! :eek:
However I only use mine at home and not doing production stuff.
 

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The air over pumps run at high pressure and low flow because the rams they are designed to work with are small and require the high pressure to get the high forces out of them. The air over pump you are looking at is for a 10,000 psi system and the ram you are looking at is 2,500 psi, just be carefull. Your proposed set up will be very slow because the pump is low flow and the ram will have to be bigger (piston size) to get enough force at 2500 psi. I dont even think the pump will have enough oil volume to fill the ram anyway.
 

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My pro tools bender was air over for several years and I went thru three units before I changed it over to 12volt hydraulic unit from Pierce wrecker sales

I live in Reidville S.C. Just let me know and you can some and see how I have done mine.
 

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The HF 110/220 flavor looks good, except they don't list a GPM on it.

Mine's 12V, with a battery and a trickle charger (got the pump and a cylinder I couldn't use for $50--too good a deal to pass up, despite the useless cylinder) for power. I've seen quite a few built on 220 pumps, usually the same pumps that are used for shop vehicle hoists. Works well.

FWIW, I personally prefer the control valve to be separate from the pump. Here's a pic of all the components except the battery 'n' charger.



I know it's ghetto, but it flat works, and it's nowhere near as scary as my shop press with a 28" lift kit.

Also, I believe you can get a 220 hydro pump out of Northern (instead of HF) for about $2-300, should be better quality. Add a cylinder and a control valve for another $200ish (for both), $100 worth of fittings and hoses, and build mounts, and you're bending with more power than you should ever need (I can bend 1.75 0.500 in mine!) for probably under $600.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
The HF 110/220 flavor looks good, except they don't list a GPM on it.

Mine's 12V, with a battery and a trickle charger (got the pump and a cylinder I couldn't use for $50--too good a deal to pass up, despite the useless cylinder) for power. I've seen quite a few built on 220 pumps, usually the same pumps that are used for shop vehicle hoists. Works well.
Is that a plow pump? Can't seem to find it.

What is the GPM of your unit?
 

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We've guessed (not flow tested) mine at around 2 GPM. It's a used pump, and I don't know where it came from originally, but I know I've seen stuff like it in Northern. I'll go look.

Edit: This one
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...ogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=20824
appears to be approximately similar to what I have.

With a little plumbing work, a little electrical work, and/or some mechanical fun, you could probably make any of
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...ogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&categoryId=1502
do the job, but I'd personally go for one without any integral valve assemblies--I like valves and pumps to be separate parts. Also, as you can see from my above pic, I like the control valve on the bender, to be up away from the pump anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Can't you get a AC to DC converter for the pump. I think they are about 20.00
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I wish I could find a used pump for a decent price.
 

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guinea13 said:
Can't you get a AC to DC converter for the pump. I think they are about 20.00
For one that can supply 200 amps (with a spike of potentially 400)... they're a little more than $20. It'd be cheaper for me to buy a new pump, than to try and run what amounts to a starter driving a hydro pump, off a converter.

As for a cheap used hydro pump, try someplace that repairs trucks with Tommygates.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Hey wouldn't this pump:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...ogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=23502

be better than this one:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...ogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=23499

You may not get a high of a GPM but you will get ~6000 more inch lbs of bending torque. This was figured out using this cylinder:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...=on&TEST=Y&productId=200042724&categoryId=425


You would have a full stroke time of 29 sec for the first pump and 19 sec for the second pump (assuming a 1800 RPM motor). But the first pump would have more bending torque. I guess it is really dependent on big a peice of tube you want to bend or how fast you want to bend a peice of tube.

Does anyone know how much in/lbs of bending torque is needed to bend a 1 3/4" DOM .120 wall tube? how about 2" DOM .120 wall tube.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hey LAME,
What RPM does your motor run at?
I just found a 3/4 pool pump motor that runs at 3450 RPM.


I want to run it with this pump:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...ogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=23502



And the cylinder above.

It should be a good match up. Since I will be running close to 4 GPM with a pressure just under 2300 PSI, which is just under the max load for that cylinder.

Now All I have to do is make the frame and order a die set.

What is a good die set for a tube buggy? Aren't they all made of approx. 1 3/4 DOM .120 wall?
 
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