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Discussion Starter #1
I checked a couple of the local stores
all I could find was GL5,any ideas on where I can fid this
 

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Nah, 5 isn't better on brass type parts like syncros. As I understand it 5 is too slick and the brass stuff needs less slickness (is that a word?) to work correctly. 4 is the right stuff, but I don't know where to get it. Do a search at http://www.t4x4pickup.com/dgroup/index.html They talk about stuff like that on a weekly basis, at least where to get it.

I looked for yah, see this thread: http://www.t4x4pickup.com/dgroup/messages/73506.html

[ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: ToyFord ]
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks I will try
NAPA auto tommorow
 

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GL-4 is available at your local GM dealer or any AC/Delco parts store now that said I wouldn't recommend running it check your owners manual any GL-5 or better design for manual transmissions will be sufficient I recommend name brand 75W90 <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
 

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NAPA auto parts in vacaville, right above the new les schwab in town....they got it <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">
 

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2 places I have found the stuff are Pep boys and Orchard hardware. Try Napa first. And GL4 is the right stuff....I have seen suggestions that you can use GL5, but I have seen several Toyota trannies that wouldn't shift work fine after a change to GL4. <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">
 

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The GL-4/GL-5 debate doesn't center around whether one is more slippey than the the other. The main issue concerns friction additives that are needed in hypoid gears(diff) compared to the gears in the tranny and t-case. The additive(s) are supposedly many time more concentrated in GL-5, and are corrosive to bronze parts. A good tranny will shift well with either of them.
I found StaLube GL-4 @ NAPA. $13.00/gallon.
 

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In plain words toyota says GL4 or GL5 so which every will be fine just use something of quailty. happy shifting <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

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The GL-4/GL-5 debate doesn't center around whether one is more slippey than the the other. The main issue concerns friction additives that are needed in hypoid gears(diff) compared to the gears in the tranny and t-case. The additive(s) are supposedly many time more concentrated in GL-5, and are corrosive to bronze parts. A good tranny will shift well with either of them.
I found StaLube GL-4 @ NAPA. $13.00/gallon.
And friction additives do what, exactly, if not form a slicker surface? I realize that toyota currently says GL4 or GL5, but in old manuals they did nix the use of GL5. And GL5 will work, but how well and how long are another story. I have personally drained GL5 from old toyota trannies that would not shift without crunching, put in GL4, and they have worked well. And, Yes, it was reasonably fresh GL5....Ask me how I know...
Especially avoid synthetic GL5 in transmissions! Redline makes a point of it. Ignore them them at your syncro's peril! <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/clown.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">
 

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Yes in early toyota manuals only GL4 was specifed but thats because GL5 wasn't available commonly then toyota recognized a better fluid was avialable and they include it in there recommendations toyota is not wrong very often <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
 

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Yes in early toyota manuals only GL4 was specifed but thats because GL5 wasn't available commonly then toyota recognized a better fluid was avialable and they include it in there recommendations toyota is not wrong very often
When they recommended GL4 in the tranny, they REQUIRED GL5 in the differentials. EP (Extreme Pressure) additives just don't work well with synchros. Put in what you like, but don't complain when your speed shift fades away. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

[ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: 4wheeldog ]
 

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Just food for thought ever transmission failure I'm aware of was a result of bearing failure not the synchros wouldn't the GL5 protect bearings more effeciently than GL4 and toyota uses GL5 for all there trucks new and for warranty toyota will not cover there dealers if GL5 isn't used explain that <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0">
 

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I was told once by a bearing rep that oils high in EP additives actually allow the bearings to skid. Just my guess, but the rear end bearings are loaded and tighter clearance so they could stand the GL5, where the trannie bearings aren't and would tend to skid more.
 

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I always use Redline GL-5 oils in my transmissions. My snap-on pyrometer does not lie. Runs 5 to 10 degrees cooler than Redline GL-4 fluid. My bearings seem to last much longer with GL-5 when towing especially if you use 5th gear alot which you should not if towing cars on car trailers etc. GL-5 shifts noticably better (smoother) below 5000rpm but GL-4 seems to shift a lot better above 5000rpm when you shift quickly (must be the friction thing). Since I rarely shift above 5000rpm who cares...I'd just assume have easy shifting and less wear for most of my driving.

Jason <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
 

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You have to be very careful to follow the proper recommendations and GL type for your transmission or transfer cases. For example if you use a GL-5 in a NV-4500 transmission you will ruin it. Guaranteed. Marlin warned me about using a GL-5 in my transfer cases behind my NV-4500. Should the oils cross the gaskets separating the transmission and transfer case, contamination could ruin my transmission. He already knew of this happening to one guy. If the book says GL-4 then use it. Redline makes an excellent GL-4 as does Castrol (Castrol Syntorq). The Syntorq is difficult to find and can be very expensive depending on where you get it. The Redline MT-90 is a GL-4 and costs about $8/qt.
 

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I think Toyota transmissions can probably work with either grade oil, I like MTL or MT-90 because they make the transmission shift better and they are specifically designed for manual transmissions (that what the MT stands for).

Perhaps Toyota has used a brass/bronze alloy in the synchros that is resistant to the additives in GL5 oil. I ran GL5 for a while but found shifting was sluggish. I added a tube of friction modifier and that helped speed up the shifts.

GL5 gear oils are designed for gears that slide over each other like the ring and pinion. GL4 is for gears that have little sliding motion, like spur and bevel gears in transmissions.
 

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Originally posted by RAW:
<STRONG>The additive(s) are supposedly many times more concentrated in GL-5, and <font color="red">are corrosive to bronze parts</font>. A good tranny will shift well with either of them.</STRONG>
<font color="red" size="3">
DO NOT RUN GL-5 IN A TRANNY RECOMMENDED TO USE GL-4!
</font><font color="yellow">

RAW was exactly correct (until he pronounced GL-5 safe for your tranny). GL-5 is intended for use in hypoid gearsets, and has additives that help prolong the life of a gearset under tremendous pressure (Like Ring & Pinion gears - which is why Toyota recommends it for those components). HOWEVER, these additives are corrosive to bronze and some other metals. Well guess what Synchronizers are commonly made out of in manual transmissions? BRONZE! <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

You CAN put GL-5 in your transmission if you like. It WILL run anywhere from 3-10 degrees cooler in most cases. However, the synchros are slowly being eroded away as you drive along with that cooler transmission. The amount of heat produced is insignificant in a manual transmission. Heat is the killer of Autos because the torque converter produces so much of it, which is the reason that most offroaders run huge coolers if they run an auto trans, and many prefer to avoid the whole reliability mess and use a manual. Manuals pretty much don't care about heat (the a certain extent), don't produce much heat on their own, and don't really heat up unless you slip the clutch brutally for long periods.

As for the "slipperyness" being the issue, you are referring to the viscosity of the oil (how thick it is at X temperature compared to other lubricants. GL-5 will maintian it's viscosity longer and is simply a better lubricant in most cases - which is why it's thinner. As far as that being the issue with the transmission, though, if you feel the need for a thinner oil, run a lighter weight GL-4 rated lubricant.

The reason (AFAIK) that Toyota now recommends GL5 in their vehicles is that they have switched away from brass synchro's, and it is no longer an issue. It has nothing to do with them going "hey, look! There's a better oil out there!" It's more like they have now built a tranny that won't be eaten by GL5.

Futhermore, as far as synchros wearing out by bearing failure, and not by becoming dissolved, you are completely correct. However, even though it probably will never cause them to fail, I prefer wheeling my truck with a transmission that is not slowly killing it's own synchros. Sure - it may never matter. But the GL-5 sure as hell isn't helping my transmission.

If you want to run GL-5 in your tranny, that's your choice. It's your truck. I'll stick with what I know works, and run GL-4.</font>

[ 09-24-2001: Message edited by: MasterYota ]
 
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