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Discussion Starter #1
OK, so the symptoms are -- new noises on acceleration. Sounds like something is rattling against the gears. Tough to engage 2nd (L,1,2,3). Now having trouble getting out of 2nd. Seems to be jammed.

Currently I have 2f-sm420-Warden plate-Orion.

Thoughts? It's too early to call Mudrak, but that's my next stop.

thanks
 

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It sounds to me like the 2nd gear syncro might be toast? I can mail you PDF's of the manual if you like.

good luck-
Dustin
 

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Sounds like a bearing. I dont know the break down of an sm420, but ive had syncro problems on 2 465's and they usually became a pain in the ass getting them in gear, and would eventually just start poping out of gear on their own. Never had them stick in gear.
When the bearings on my getrag were going out, it was getting a little harder to shift, making noise, and would stick in gear(pretty much your exact problems) because the bearings were not "free" spinning like normal, so they would not want to let the mainshaft and input shaft move at different speeds. This keeps a constant "load" on the gears, not letting them release nicely. And it was only 2 bearings on the countershaft that were bad.

Just incase you want the rest of the story.
The symptoms werent that bad so i dealt with them, then it started growling bad. I decided i needed to do something about it, but later that night on my way home... Bang. Truck lost drive(the counterhsaft bearings fell into pieces allowing the countershaft to fall away from the input) and i had no idea what happened. clutch seemed fine. Driveline wasnt broken. Truck didnt drive in 4lo, 4hi or 2???. Then i somhow got it going in 4th gear and drove a few miles then it locked up, stalled the cummins and locked the rear tires. It was all evident when i pulled the tranny out the next day.

What are you using for oil? Synthetic barbeqe sauce?:flipoff2:
Put an auto in that cruiser and you wont ever look back to that old clacky clapped out gear box.

Ian-
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think Gary threw some synthetic in there when we did the Orion.

An Auto to Orion? I suppose.
 

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I just recently delt with a similar problem; slight noise plus difficulty getting out of 2nd. This usually happened when downshifting or when coming to a stop. The load on the gears would jam the shifter and I couldn't downshift out of 2nd. Very annoying when in traffic or at a stop light. I'd have to hold in the clutch 'till the light changed and then start in 2nd gear.
As Complaine suggested, mine turned out to be worn input and needle bearings and a buggered pilot bushing. I sourced the needle bearings and pilot bushing at Napa and the input bearing at a tranny shop and now everything shifts smoother than ever before.
The sm420 is simple to work on. If you want to tackle it, the factory repair manual can be downloaded here: http://www.kinzers.com/don/landcruiser/transmissions/index.html
 

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Ross, if you go auto lets get a 2 for one price discount.
Sounds to me like you lost the rear bearing and the output shaft is moving back, although on your set up it would reak havoc with the orion if it was, Try takin the cone off the back of t-case and see if that output is moving in and out. You need the rear on jack stands so someone can drive it while you are under there looking at output to see if it is movin.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
craig -- thanks for the link

Mudrak thinks it might be the shift rail, but more likely the main shaft. I'm going to pull the top cover, and see what I can find.
 

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yup, go 465 or auto. scratch that, go with an auto! :grinpimp:


lemme know what you decide ross. you know i can have a kik-ass auto built for ya............

also, if you do stay with the manual trans and you end up replacing the clutch and or pilot, then make sure you run a pilot bushing, not a bearing. a bearing failure can and will wipe out tyhe input gear on the standard trans. the bushing will outlast just about anything on the vehicle under two conditions:
1) make sure it's a bronze/oillite bushing. if it sticks to a magnet then it's got ferrous metal in it which in turn can/will cause prematurely wear on the input gear.
2) make sure the pilot bushins is properly lubed. do NOT put grease on it. oillite is a porous material that's basically like a sponge. it's designed to absorb and retain oil. putting grease on it will clog the pores and the bushing will fail.
the proper wat to lubricate these things is to let them soak in engine oil for 24 hours or more. if you don't have that much time, then put the bushing on your thumb with the exposed hole facing up. fill the cavity with engine oil, put your other thumb on the hole and push. push hard. for a few seconds. repeat this step a few times and you'll see some very small air bubbl;es forming on the outside of the bushing. this lets you know that the oil is being forced into the bushing. it's now ready to install. if your thumbs are sore then you've done the job properly!

hope that helps.:)
 

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Ross has a 2F, not too many auto options....
fix the 420, every wrecker in the country has one.
PMK
 

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a440f with a doubler behind it of course! all you'd have to do is run a V-drive behind it to hook it up to the rear axle....
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yeah -- That $100 sm420 is looking better and better. Probably gonna run up to Sac Saturday and pick it up
 

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Yeah -- That $100 sm420 is looking better and better. Probably gonna run up to Sac Saturday and pick it up
On your warden plate did you have a locator ring fort the bell housing ? Mine did not and the misaligngment chewed up the gears pretty bad.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
my plate goes between the 420 and the xfer case. Not sure what bell housing adapter you're talking about.

I've had this setup for 8 years now, with no problems. I think the tranny is just getting old(er).
 

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What he is refering to is the nose cone on the 420 is too small to properly index into the 3 speed bellhousing with the 4 bolts alone. Spaceghost sold his adapters with a spacer ring that went around the nose cone and filled the space to get it all lined up perfectly.
PMK
 
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