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That looks enticing. The key to going fast with articulation is a narrow center. The current go-to is the 9/10" Ford which puts the flanges about 14.5" apart. It is possible to reduce that to 13.5" with a little work and special parts. I am not sure where you will wind up??

For a number of years I used the Aluminum Model44 Corvette center which is machined similar to where you are going. The outer bearing is a wide roller bearing. I let the stub shaft plunge in that and the locker/differential. The plunge is about 1/4" and never had an issue with 3 builds. The center did not take any of the suspension load as per stock Corvette. That made it work. Flange to flange is about 17". Today, I am using a Quick Change and 7" Flange to flange and brings an easy 24" articulation.

I believe a couple make centers along the same lines as the 14 bolt, but not common in rigs as they are so wide.

I am currently building an IFS/IRS car but today I wouldn't go IRS without A-arms. It takes a lot of work with suspension geometry to keep the tire square or negative camber to the ground with our large amounts of body roll. Same with IFS... Unless you want to go fast, want precise steering, and a good skidding vehicle. All of that works best with a narrow center, and to allow turning and articulation. If 8-10 inches articulation is OK. You will have something beefy that the CV's might not take...unless 30 series @$1k each.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That looks enticing. The key to going fast with articulation is a narrow center. The current go-to is the 9/10" Ford which puts the flanges about 14.5" apart. It is possible to reduce that to 13.5" with a little work and special parts. I am not sure where you will wind up??

For a number of years I used the Aluminum Model44 Corvette center which is machined similar to where you are going. The outer bearing is a wide roller bearing. I let the stub shaft plunge in that and the locker/differential. The plunge is about 1/4" and never had an issue with 3 builds. The center did not take any of the suspension load as per stock Corvette. That made it work. Flange to flange is about 17". Today, I am using a Quick Change and 7" Flange to flange and brings an easy 24" articulation.

I believe a couple make centers along the same lines as the 14 bolt, but not common in rigs as they are so wide.

I am currently building an IFS/IRS car but today I wouldn't go IRS without A-arms. It takes a lot of work with suspension geometry to keep the tire square or negative camber to the ground with our large amounts of body roll. Same with IFS... Unless you want to go fast, want precise steering, and a good skidding vehicle. All of that works best with a narrow center, and to allow turning and articulation. If 8-10 inches articulation is OK. You will have something beefy that the CV's might not take...unless 30 series @$1k each.

Yeah I know exactly what you mean. This build has been a long time coming including many years of research,reading, and design. Yes the 14 bolt is wide, but has great aftermarket support, super strong, and great mounting options for this route (without welding the casting). I am right @ 13" wide without stub shafts in place. I am going to spend the Holiday time off finishing up machining the bearing cups and retaining collars. I think I am just going to go a little wide on the A-Arms to help make-up for the wide diff housing.
 

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"and great mounting options for this route (without welding the casting)."

Don't worry about welding to the casting, it welds easily and reliably. It is nodular cast iron, not grey cast iron like an engine block. Pre heat it to 300 F, and keep it warm with fiberglass blanket, and just mig or tig right to it with regular steel filler. If I was cool enough to post pics, I would put up some of my 14b axle build with almost 10 years of racing on it. Edit: maybe this will work:

https://www.race-dezert.com/forum/attachments/dsc01812-jpg.58916/
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
"and great mounting options for this route (without welding the casting)."

Don't worry about welding to the casting, it welds easily and reliably. It is nodular cast iron, not grey cast iron like an engine block. Pre heat it to 300 F, and keep it warm with fiberglass blanket, and just mig or tig right to it with regular steel filler. If I was cool enough to post pics, I would put up some of my 14b axle build with almost 10 years of racing on it. Edit: maybe this will work:

https://www.race-dezert.com/forum/attachments/dsc01812-jpg.58916/
Wow that is a crazy truss system you built. Yes I have read about pre-heating prior to welding. Just makes me nervous welding so close to the main cap areas with the ears whacked off. I am just going to mount off the diff cover flange and pinion flange bolts. Plenty of beefy bolts to secure the housing with.
 

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are you planning on running pop in style stub shafts like a normal IFS diff or the bolt on bearing retainer like a semifloat axle? what bearings and seals are you planning on using? Very cool. I plan on doing something similar with a dana 44.
 

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I'll be keeping an eye on this. No interest in building my own independent stuff, but I'm sure it will be interesting.
 

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I think I am just going to go a little wide on the A-Arms to help make-up for the wide diff housing.
It also took me some time to re-find this. Normally General 4x4. Read up on geometry for your A-arms. Not an easy deal to get everything to clear. The needs are pretty clear for the outer knuckle/upright, but it is the inside hinge points that generate the geometry for most everything.

There is almost nothing parallel in advanced mounts. That is due to worrying about correct CAMBER while articulating and turning. It only gets worse when you dial in body roll. (We use 10* body roll for IFS checking) Next step down is just slanting the A arms down in the back. You may think that the wheel is receding when hitting a rock. Yes, it does. The clue is to slant the top arm slightly more to initiate caster gain when hitting something which also adds camber when turning.

The shorter the arms, the harder it is going to be to get thing moving correctly. But if you are in the 10-12" articulation range, probably reasonable.

We also try to run big offset wheels (-5.5") to maximize arm length, but there are rim and boot clearance issues. A couple builders have gone to 20" wheels which really makes things happen good. The issue is getting the top upright mount to be as high as possible and clearing the rim and tire. You will see this when working the numbers.

I suggest moching up in wood to verify ideas. There are somoe more tricks in the threads in Gen 4x4. We have all learned a lot ...and still learning.

Cheers for pushing on! It would be easier to do a IRS first but I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't do much for you over a straight rear axle with double triangle links. (SXS have it because there is a motor in the way.)

The big no-no is letting the tire tuck under the chassis during articulation and turning. (For those just starting to consider independent)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
are you planning on running pop in style stub shafts like a normal IFS diff or the bolt on bearing retainer like a semifloat axle? what bearings and seals are you planning on using? Very cool. I plan on doing something similar with a dana 44.

I am going to machine a bearing retainer similar to the semi-float style OEM design. Currie also uses this design on their 9" independent housings and it works great. Great question on the bearings. The 14 bolt axle tube diameter does not match any common wheel bearing diameter that I can find. So, I am going to open up the diameter of the housing to 90mm on the CNC machine. This way I can run a very common size sealed wheel bearing made by all the big OEM's: Timken, Kaman, SKF, Aurora, etc.. For seals I am going with Crane Axle Threaded Spanner seal. They are a little pricey, but this way I can replace the seal with common parts house seals from Napa, Auto Zone, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
are you planning on running pop in style stub shafts like a normal IFS diff or the bolt on bearing retainer like a semifloat axle? what bearings and seals are you planning on using? Very cool. I plan on doing something similar with a dana 44.
If you take a look at the first pic I posted behind the 14 bolts, there's a independent rear end out of a 60's Jag that uses a Dana 44 housing..
Future hot rod build!! Found it in a junk yard scrap vehicle last year.. They gave it to me for $100 as is.
 
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