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Discussion Starter #1
I had a discussion a day or so ago with Dennis Cullen, Officer Marcus’s boss. We had discussion specific to Officer Marcus and the tickets he has recently written, but more importantly, we had a discussion of guidelines he has set for his officers. He also promised to chat with Officer Marcus and remind him of those guidelines.

Guidelines:

- Generally, if you are on paved roads, you can expect to be ticketed for whatever traffic violations you commit…have your trailer and tow rig lights working and stay on your side of the road, don’t flat tow your green-stickered vehicle, and don’t drive your green stickered vehicle on the road.

- On the trail, officers will “concentrate on safety related violations, especially lack of a brake or tail light and seat belt use”. The exception is that they WILL ticket for registration violations.

- The mixed use section of the road between the Chalet and the second dam will be treated essentially like the trail with the exception that they will still issue moving violations to folks that are over the double yellow, driving at speeds unsafe for their vehicles, etc.

That being said, if you encounter a USFS LEO, keep your cool and take your ticket if you are in violation. If the officer is less than polite with you when you are being polite, document their actions, their specific words (quote them!), and the date and time, and file a written complaint against the officer. If there are numerous well documented complaints against a single officer that indicate a pattern of selective enforcement, the FS can’t help but pay attention.

Finally, the Patrol Captain on the Eldorado (the boss of all the LEO’s on the forest), Dennis Cullen, is retiring soon. Dennis has always worked with us and has always been a good source of “straight talk”. He will tell it like it is without being disagreeable and has always enjoyed a respectful relationship with OHV folks. What that means to us is that Officer Marcus will soon have a new boss, and we don’t really know if that is good, bad or no different than it is now. Either way, the way to avoid problems in the future is for us to be good at operating within the law, and if mistakes are made, let them be on their part.
 

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For obvious reasons, I'm wondering if it would be best to keep such discussions somehow private. Is it possible to create a group whereby the person who starts the group can decide who is allowed to partake in membership of the group? For example, we can likely air our needs and concerns in the FOTR Google groups but perhaps we can create a private group on pirate.

Just a thought....
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
For obvious reasons, I'm wondering if it would be best to keep such discussions somehow private.

Just a thought....
Dennis C. and I talked about that, but in the end opted for a more public educational effort.

Good idea to put it out on FOTR though. I think I will do that! What, you mean everybody doesn't read Pirate? :p
 

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A thanks from Abbey and I for doing the leg work on this. I think as a whole we can still have them on our side. If your not an ***hat and mind your buisness and enjoy the trail and RESPECT it i see the LEO's as a potential positive.

jiMMy
 

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So is officer Kenny anti-OHV? Or is he just taking advantage of the fact that he can find more equipment violations on Ice House road compared to a random stretch of Highway 50?

Regards,
....Mike
 

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Thank You to all of you who have taken time out of your days to address this issue. Your efforts are very much appreciated.:)
I spoke to My Nephew yesterday and He had just gotten off the phone with the Court Clerk about the Seat Belt Citation she told him that Officer Marcus did not Know what he was talking about when he stated that My Nephew would need to appear in court for a seat belt citation and it would be idiotic to require a Out Of State Driver to return for a minor infraction. Courtesy Notice and Fine are being mailed to him.:p
 

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So is officer Kenny anti-OHV? Or is he just taking advantage of the fact that he can find more equipment violations on Ice House road compared to a random stretch of Highway 50?

Regards,
....Mike
No, Ken is actually an OHV enthusiast himself. He's into riding quads. So he's not ani-OHV.
He's not taking advantage of Ice House Rd, that happens to be his beat. It's a little gap where the Forest LEOs fill in because the CHP handles Hwy50 and the Sheriff handles the trail itself.

If Ken was working within a city or stretch of highway, I'm sure his enforcement would remain consistent. Perhaps on the side of "by the book" with everything, but consistent none-the-less.

Technically, there's nothing wrong with "by the book" because that's the way the law is written. Our goal is to bridge the gap between us and them, to show them who we really are, and to try and understand their position better. In the long run, after efforts on both sides to bring about understanding, I have a feeling we'll settle into a relationship of mutual respect and dialed-in perspective. Have faith.

Courtesy Notice and Fine are being mailed to him.:p
That's good news. I'm glad he's able to resolve this without greater inconveniance. Just ensure it's all said and done by the date in January.
:thumbsup:
 

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Though I do not have a rig, I have been on the Rubicon with friends, but Id like to have it open when I do have a rig to play with. Rules are rules, if someone broke your rules you would want them to pay. Although we are not on the streets, we are still behined the wheel of a vehicle, and any and all laws should aply. Think about it, would you rather have a ticket (for something you need to fix), or have the trail closed? Lets pick our battles, the right ones I mean, so we can keep the trails open. I read talks of "ride alongs" Well, why not? If you see them walking, offer a ride. After all, if you see someone one the trail broken down, wouldnt you stop and help them and make a friend?
 

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For years I have been under the impression that all the LEO's were cool. I was taken back when hearing about this guy. I'm glad the situation has been confronted and I hope he mellows out a bit.

I tell this story often because it's good to hear:

In the early days of enforcement I was irritated that one of the few self policed (I used to use the term outlaw) places I frequented, began to feel like a jail of sorts. After avoiding at all cost and growing up a bit I began to return regardless of the new rules. I've come to find that the officers up there are excellent people more often than not. Like everyone says. Don't be an ass and you might be pleasantly surprised that it's not much different than pre-enforcement. Police have a tough job, but most of them are human and the right disposition goes a long way, especially up there.
 

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Resqme ,nice you have taken the time to bridge the gap now only time will tell the outcome. Thank you......Dennis is a great guy but I havn't spoken with Ken, I will talk with him and let him decide what I should think. I'm hoping to have a positive experience. But first I'll do a walk around my rigs for any gotchas.:D
 

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i was talking to my neighbor the other day, hes a sheriff, and i was telling him how i got pulled over in the forest because the license plate on my jeep was not properly displayed. Well it turns out you cannot be ticketed for anything on a trailer. So if anyone else is getting messed with because of something on the trailer you can pretty much tell them to leave you alone and check their vehicle handbook because a vehicle on a trailer is not on the roadway and therefore not ticketable.
 

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i was talking to my neighbor the other day, hes a sheriff, and i was telling him how i got pulled over in the forest because the license plate on my jeep was not properly displayed. Well it turns out you cannot be ticketed for anything on a trailer. So if anyone else is getting messed with because of something on the trailer you can pretty much tell them to leave you alone and check their vehicle handbook because a vehicle on a trailer is not on the roadway and therefore not ticketable.
With all do respect, the last thing you want to tell an LEO is to "leave you alone" and "go check there handbook"

First off it just pisses them off and they will usually look for and find every infraction they can to write you up on, there are better ways to discuss the issue more politely. Second, how would you like it if someone that knew nothing about your job came to your place of employment and tried to tell you how to do it?

Don't get me wrong, there are LEO's all over this country that are pricks and sometimes need re-education in the fine art of the law. But remember that LEO's may be your last line of defense if you need help in the woods. They're the ones with the direct line to 911 :D

For those that run into the LEO's that need re-education, do as resqme did and follow the chain of command and let the sup's deal with the troops.

Sorry to rant, be polite and dont piss off the PoPo!

Great job you did resqme :)
 

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first... I am always polite to LEO's.. and any ticket I've ever received, I deserved.


...but if an LEO wants to ticket me for a violation of a vehicle on a trailer... yes, I'm gonna at least ask to see the vehicle code that says that a vehicle being transported on a trailer must meet street vehicle requirements....It wouldn't be like I went to a business and told them how to make something. A LEO is enforcing the law... they should darn well KNOW it before they accuse folks of breaking it... it's not the same thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
...No person shall drive, move, or leave standing upon a highway, or in an offstreet public parking facility, any motor vehicle...unless it is registered and the appropriate fees have been paid under this code...
I believe the question of interpretation here is that if the vehicle in question is being moved on a legally registered and otherwise legal trailer, it is truly being moved on the trailer, NOT on the roadway.

Otherwise how would, for example, a tow company legally move a junk car from a recycler's yard to a crushing or smelting facility?
 

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5201. License plates shall at all times be securely fastened to the vehicle for which they are issued so as to prevent the plates from swinging, shall be mounted in a position so as to be clearly visible, and shall be maintained in a condition so as to be clearly legible. The rear license plate shall be mounted not less than 12 inches nor more than 60 inches from the ground, and the front license plate shall be mounted not more than 60 inches from the ground, except as follows:.....


I am not trying to upset anyone, just giving you all information.
My rear plate is on the tailgate and the front plate is in the front windshield, lower passenger side corner just above the dash, is this legal? I think many of us get creative with license plate mounting in an attempt to stay legal while preventing the license plates from becoming damaged, destroyed, illegible, etc.

Regards,
....Mike
 

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I believe the question of interpretation here is that if the vehicle in question is being moved on a legally registered and otherwise legal trailer, it is truly being moved on the trailer, NOT on the roadway.

Otherwise how would, for example, a tow company legally move a junk car from a recycler's yard to a crushing or smelting facility?
A junk car would have a plate and registration. Most recycling places won't take a car without the title, too.

Consider the alternative: Any theif can steal a truck, rip the plates off, and trailer it. He's getting away with it...unless Kenny stops him and saves the day and brings your stolen truck home to you.

A missing plate, and other small details - may be hints of possible stolen vehicles. We cannot afford to provide such an easy clean get away to bad guys. And for us good guys, putting a plate on the rig is no big deal. 5 minutes in the garage. Really, we are not that lazy. We put hours and hours into our rigs - what's 5 more minutes?

Thanks for the response, Kenny. Good info. I appreciate your effort in helping us understand WHY and WHAT we need to do to be legit. It's a heads-up we're lucky to have.
 

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It's really not good info and totally subject to question.

My vehicle is being transported not moved while on a trailer. Moving implies it still touching the ground. Transport defines it being carried.
 
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