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maybe a critical mass approach? have line of 4 to 5 hundred rigs heading up icehouse, he will probably have a vehicle code hernia in his brainstem and spontaniously self combust
 

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maybe a critical mass approach? have line of 4 to 5 hundred rigs heading up icehouse, he will probably have a vehicle code hernia in his brainstem and spontaniously self combust


bhahahahaha

Now that's funny
 

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Discussion Starter #145 (Edited)
...as far as flares I am square. I have questions on whether I need to get flaps or not as I run a jeep and it did not come with them stock and I have not seen to many with them so I am wondering if I need them. Please educate me on whether or not I should have them on a TJ on 37’s with 7” flares.
I am trying to figure out what the flap laws are also.
OK, I promised to research this, and what I came up with surprised me...here goes:

There are two documents in the state of California that determine use of mudflaps and fenders: California Vehicle Code (CVC) section 27600 and the Highway Patrol Manual (HPM) section 82.6.

This is CVC section 27600 in its entirety:

27600. No person shall operate any motor vehicle having three or more wheels, any trailer, or semitrailer unless equipped with fenders, covers, or devices, including flaps or splash aprons, or unless the body of the vehicle or attachments thereto afford adequate protection to effectively minimize the spray or splash of water or mud to the rear of the vehicle and all such equipment or such body or attachments thereto shall be at least as wide as the tire tread. This section does not apply to those vehicles exempt from registration, trailers and semitrailers having an unladen weight of under 1,500 pounds, or any vehicles manufactured and first registered prior to January 1, 1971, having an unladen weight of under 1,500 pounds.

Now, this is a pretty vague law. Here are some things I personally take away from it:

- It calls for “fenders, covers, or devices, including flaps or splash aprons, or unless the body of the vehicle or attachments thereto”. To me, the word “or” indicates that you don’t have to have all of these things as long as what you do have extends to the edge of the tire and will “afford adequate protection to effectively minimize the spray or splash of water or mud to the rear of the vehicle”. According to the law, you don’t need all of them as long as they keep mud and water from splashing to the rear of the vehicle!

- If you have a vehicle (trailer) that is less than 1500 lbs unladen weight (most jeep trailers), no splash protection whatsoever is required, period.

So now on to the second document, HPM 82.6, a two page document used by the CHP as an enforcement guideline for CVC 27600. The Watch Commander at the Placerville CHP office told me directly that when in court, CHP officers will refer directly to HPM 82.6 and judges will use it as an accepted interpretation of CVC 26700. So where does that leave us with the El Dorado National Forest? Well, the Patrol Captain of ENF also told me directly that their LEO’s use HPM 82.6 in exactly the same way, are trained to use it, and rely on the CHP as the authority in enforcing vehicle code violations. The document says an awful lot about commercial vehicles and not much about passenger vehicles, but I think I have distilled it out and will address only what it says that affects us.

Alright, on to what HPM 82.6 says:
- Fenders and/or flaps are required on trailers with an unladen weight of 1500 lbs or more, but does not require either on smaller trailers.
- All 4 wheeled motor vehicles weighing 1500 lbs or more are subject to flap and fender laws.
- All wheels in contact with the road must be adequately shielded to minimize the spray or splash of mud or water (doesn’t say anything about rocks) to the rear of the vehicle.
- Vehicles in combination (meaning towing a trailer) that are not at the rear of the combination are subject to enforcement only if there is evidence that splash or spray extends to the rear of the combination of vehicles (you don’t need flaps or fenders if you are towing a trailer that prevents splash behind your vehicle).
- There is a “Guide for Determining Adequacy of Flaps” that has measurements and angles and distances listed in it, but these guidelines do not apply to passenger vehicles!
- Fenders and flaps must cover the width of your tread.
- Flaps should be placed “as far to the rear of the (rear) wheel as practical for greatest effectiveness”.
- The only vehicles that are required to have fenders and splash flaps are those hauling aggregate.

In my opinion, based on these two documents, the bottom line is that if you have a set of flaps that reasonably prevent splash or spray of mud or water to the rear of your vehicle, and cover the width of your tire tread, any citation issued to you can be fought and won in court. In order to be double sure you won’t get a citation (for those of you who don’t like to go to court, even if you are going to win), put fenders on it as well that extend to the edge of the tire tread and come forward to at least the centerline of the axle (the requirement for vehicles hauling aggregate).
 

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So here we have it, another law with a big grey area
"reasonably prevent splash or spray of mud or water to the rear of your vehicle"

My idea of resonably, undoubtably will differ from those that might stop me for such an offense :shaking:
 

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Discussion Starter #147
Me too, Rich...I guess we'll figure that one out in court one of these days.
 

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Resqme , thanks for the research, nicely done.
 

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Quick disconnect mud flaps = blah blah
Reason for the law = blah blah
inches from floor requirement = blah blah
No reason for you to be disrespectful to me, John.
I'm not the enemey. I'm trying to be helpful and it sucks to take a slam from someone that's supposed to be on your side.

While YOU may know EVERYTHING, perhaps others don't. This is not an email from ME to YOU. It's a post from me to everybody. Some people may appreciate what I type.

Following laws blindly is stupid. Resisting laws blindly is stupid. Knowledge is power, and knowing WHY they are place puts you into a position of making a better judgement call.

Quick disconnects - use door hinges and put a pin through, easy.

I'm insisting that there is a requirement for inches from the floor to mudflap. I'll go ahead and make some calls tomorrow and follow up.
 

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Discussion Starter #150 (Edited)
Fair enough, sorry about the blah, blah, blah thing, if that is what you found disrespectful. I should have used "etc."

I don't claim to know everything, that's why it took three days worth of research to answer what appears to be a simple question. I tried to turn in a comprehensive discussion on a question that was asked. The answer was based on talking to three different supervisors from the two law enforcement agencies involved and digging up the appropriate documents that related to the question.

If that's "a lot of words with little clarification" for you, I guess you'll have to do your own research. Please don't post "spirit of the law" sunshine and puppy dogs answers though, post information.

FYI, the section with measurements and angles is HPM 82.6 Section 4 Paragraph a, and per that docment, applies to commercial vehicles only. That's solid information straight from their manual.

I didn't get all these contacts in law enforcement by being disrespectful.

edt: BTW, feel free to quote me, but DO NOT misquote, please...your post contains a blatant mis-quotation.
 

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removable Flaps

here is what we did for mine. Reciever mount easy to remove. Flaps are 18 x 24. I have an extra flap that is 24 x 36 if anyone wants to buy it.
[URL="
[/URL]
 

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That right there is damn sexy :laughing::laughing:


not bagging on it, just fustrated by this whole thing :shaking:
 

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If that's "a lot of words with little clarification" for you, I guess you'll have to do your own research. Please don't post "spirit of the law" sunshine and puppy dogs answers though, post information.

I agree 100%

FYI, the section with measurements and angles is HPM 82.6 Section 4 Paragraph a, and per that docment, applies to commercial vehicles only. That's solid information straight from their manual.

My pick-up has 3/4ton is considered commerical, so where does LEO Kenny stand on that, let me guess :shaking:

I didn't get all these contacts in law enforcement by being disrespectful.

edt: BTW, feel free to quote me, but DO NOT misquote, please...your post contains a blatant mis-quotation.
Did I quote properly :D
 

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That right there is damn sexy :laughing::laughing:


not bagging on it, just fustrated by this whole thing :shaking:
me too. They will be sexier when they get painted hot pink :D We made them for our snow run on MIT and did not see any LEO's at all on New Years day, they must have been nursing hang-overs :D
 

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me too. They will be sexier when they get painted hot pink :D We made them for our snow run on MIT and did not see any LEO's at all on New Years day, they must have been nursing hang-overs :D


I'll bet he was cleaning his gun.......excuse me I mean his weapon.....oh never mind :homer:
 

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Feis
t. Law enforcement _________________________________
affected environment
the forest service is responsible for enforcing the code of federal regulations (cfrs) at 36
cfr 261 that applies to the enf. These cfrs cover a wide array of violations, ranging from very
minor infractions that occur in developed recreation sites, to road and trail use infractions, to
infractions concerned with disorderly conduct.

The forest service has several methods of enforcing compliance with the regulations applicable
to the enf. Forest protection officers (fpos) are the primary personnel involved in enforcing
regulation compliance. Forest service law enforcement officers (leos), or sheriff’s office
personnel, commonly handle more dangerous violations such as disorderly conduct.


The enf has approximately 25 fpos who can write warnings and citations as necessary to solicit
compliance. The enf also has five assigned field leo positions, plus one le
supervisor/program manager.

Fpos typically handle the most common violations. These include violations such as parking
improperly, failure to pay fees, pets off of a leash, length of stay, improper motor vehicle use, and
camping related offenses. In most cases, the public complies with the fpos and no citation is
issued. Fpos are also typically responsible for installing and maintaining signs, information
boards, barriers and physical closures, and providing information about rules and regulations.
Many fpos work seasonally, primarily during the summer, high use season.

The enf leos typically issue warnings and citations for all of the above violations as well as for
operating a motor vehicle in violation of federal regulations and california vehicle code. Leos
investigate and cite for cases of damaging or disturbing soils, vegetation, or wildlife. Leos also
commonly address cases of disorderly or unruly behavior of groups. A small number of violations
refer to nonpayment of fees, parking violations, misuse of trails, and recreation site occupancy
violations. Approximately 20% of a leos time is related to enforcement associated with motor
vehicle use and travel management
.
 

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Misquoting is fun! :flipoff2:

Forest service law enforcement officers (leos), or sheriff’s office
personnel, commonly handle more dangerous violations such as disorderly mudflaps.
:laughing: I slay me. :laughing:

Wouldn't it be cool, though if only "...approximately 20% of a LEOs time is related to enforcement associated with motor vehicle use and travel management?"

Randii
 

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We made them for our snow run on MIT and did not see any LEO's at all on New Years day, they must have been nursing hang-overs :D
On MET, Iron Mountain Road, J.J Laudenslager is normally the LEO. You will not find a nicer person to work with. I have met with him a couple of times and highly respect this man.
We had three of the LEOs at our information stop on the 3rd (including officer Marcus). Some may like writting tickets more than others. it is our job to make sure we are as legal as is aprropriate.
 

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here is what we did for mine. Reciever mount easy to remove. Flaps are 18 x 24. I have an extra flap that is 24 x 36 if anyone wants to buy it.
[URL="
[/URL]
Your plate is obstructed I think Kenny might not like that..:D
 

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Good Call, I think a drop hitch design will solve the problem
 
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