Pirate 4x4 banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
What kind of travel can I expect from a leaf spring before I start to damage the spring? I have a sprung over YJ with a 4 cyl motor. The front springs are starting to sag pretty bad. The rear axle keeps trying to move forward under my jeep bending the rear springs about 6" from the eye. I am running 87 Toy pickup springs in the rear(for 5" more wheelbase) and 80-85 toy front springs in the front (had them laying around and they looked more durable than stock YJ springs). I have been running the springs for almost a year now and they have been holding up pretty well, execpt for the problems I listed above. I would ruin a stock spring on every wheeling trip before I swaped in the Toy spings. I have been thinking about getting some custom springs made up. Would a spring pack made up of more leaves that are thinner be less likely to sag because of long travel suspension? Or would less leaves that are thicker be more durable? Keep in mind I would like to keep my suspension travel about the same. I know a longer spring would be better but I don't want to loose and approch or departure angle.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,120 Posts
The rear axle trying to move forward...I'm guessing you mean axle wrap?

That's a lot more likely to happen on SOA rigs, like what you've got, because the axle has more leverage on the spring. If you're happy with the spring except for that, you may want to look at constructing or buying some sort of anti-wrap bar for the rear.

Axle wrap will tend to wear springs out really quick if it happens a lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
No axle wrap, I have a traction bar.
The axle is acually moving forward under the jeep and bending the springs at the front.
I'll take some pictures of the the damaged springs and try to post them up here.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,120 Posts
Trailer Rails said:
No axle wrap, I have a traction bar.
The axle is acually moving forward under the jeep and bending the springs at the front.
I'll take some pictures of the the damaged springs and try to post them up here.
That's gotta be fun for the rear driveshaft...

I'd be interested to see those pics. I've seen (and produced) a bunch of s-shaped springs but never really seen what you're talking about.

How big a shackle do you have in the rear, and what kinda angle does the spring sit relative to the ground? Like, if you were to draw a line through the front and rear eye of the spring?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
Fronts-rearch (pretty common to rearch off roading springs once or twice a year)

Rear-Snail or military wrap (or both)....both will give main the extra support to prevent the axle from moving, snail wrap keeps the ride the same, both will prevent axle wrap.

Thin leaves- (flex) better for articulation
Thick leaves-(stiff) better for hauling
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks,
Yea, the rear driveshaft is not real happy.

Here is the rear spring. If I take the spring clamp off the two last leves would spread apart. If I am doing a lot of hard trails that require lots of throttle then the rear springs are worse. If I do some easier trails where I am just crusing around then they settle back down like they are here.



Here is a pice of what the front springs are doing

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
611 Posts
i would say it's time for new leaves or some coilovers and a 4 link
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,592 Posts
wilf said:
i would say it's time for new leaves or some coilovers and a 4 link
yes.. you must 4 link to continue to post here. lol, looks like a normal bent spring to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
For the rears, you need a pair of shackle stops. They will limit the forward swing of the shackles, putting the forward load on the shackles and not the main leaf of the pack. ( I do this on the fronts too, where the real spring bending woe is located) For SOA you always want to use more leaves. I like more thinner leaves. They seem to last longer. On my CJ8 i used JCWhitney 7 leaf military wrap YJ springs (on both front and rear) with 2 more leaves added in front and 3 more in the rear. That's one more main leaf and another or so added in the pack. They lasted very well. I've had dozens of sets of springs since I did my first SOA on a Willys Ute Wagon in 1965. [hey!, I can't be that old. I was 21.]
AFA the front springs- it's obvious: too much flex, on the upstroke. It only takes a few hyperflexes and your main leaves are dead. You need to limit the travel(as noxious as that seems to off-roaders) with effective bumpstops. Otherwise, you got what you got.
regards, as always, jefe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
575 Posts


It gets way worse when on the gas, I'm waiting for the spring to break. Pinky has those yoter springs up there yet trailer if you wanna try to hit him up for them.
 

·
Super Moderator
'82 Scrambler, '14 Rzr
Joined
·
62,007 Posts
Trailer Rails said:
Well, there is your problem. Your leaf stagger is concentrated in that one area, and is too much for the relatively soft Toyota top 2 leaves. believe me, I have built more Toyota packs than I care to think about ;)

You need to build a different pack that spreads the stagger out over a larger area. You need at least 1-3" more between the end of one leaf and the end of the next lower one.


Also, Toyota packs have a pretty short side, and then a pretty long side, and IMHO, they just do not work too well when the short side is attached to the shackle, and the long side attached to the solid hanger.

You can still get around this - if you re-work the leaf stagger like I suggested. I think that is your main problem right now.

Not the best pic, but this is a modified rear set of Toyota springs I ran for a few years myself:


You can see on the pack closest, that the stagger is spread out a bunch more than you have in yours. You can also see that I regularly inverted these springs and they worked just fine for several years worth of monthly trail rides.

Hope that helps :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,213 Posts
Yep the stagger is super important. Lately I've been playing more with packs that have the two top leafs full length or wrapped like the stock Toyota one. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my main leaf bent near the end of the second leaf almost 90 degrees! My buddies can't believe I have never broken a leaf as it would happen many times every trip. What's funny is I just took off a set off the front of my Toyota because it was all sagged out--like lower than a stock leaf set up and the main leafi was all bent down after the second leaf and now off the truck it has full arch and infact the leaf that was bent down has a kink in it from being bent to nearly 90 degrees up to many times to count--well its kinked up a good bit. I'll try and see if I have any pics of my springs.

Jason :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Thanks Bill, that is a great pic of what keeps happening in the rear.
I think I might need to go with a mil wrap on the rear spring.
(I need to talk to Pinky about what he has up there)

DRM, That is a great point on increasing the stagger of the leaves.
I try to get them rearched and them I'll try using some different leaves
in the front packs.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top