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Discussion Starter #1
I have friends that swear by their Ram Assist Steering. And the countless other’s here on PBB. Some with 47's that can turn lock to lock with little or no feel in the steering wheel.

I only have 39.5's and before my attempt at the assisted steering I could not turn very well unless I was rolling. Very lame. I use my cj5 as a comparison. In the rocks I could steer my 36’s with little issue. And that was just a standard pump and box, nothing fancy.
I just figured that this J truck was that much heavier and had more tire contact.


This is what I got :
Saginaw power steering pump that I modified using this reference.
http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.com/powersteering.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=591401


Tapped the box using this reference.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/HydroAssistTap/index.html




Installed the 8” 1.5 ram like so:






And bled the system using this reference.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=532358


Feels the same to me. Not the 100X’s better,. “be careful not to break the knuckles off” type of power I hear about.
This is what I have noticed;
1) the pump get hot
2) the ram gets hot too (heat transfer from the fluid I’m guessing)
3) sometimes fluid will spit out the top of my pump.
4) cant turn left acts like the box is hitting the internal stops and makes the pump squeal

Is this a symptom of crap in my system or a bad box?
 

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The fact that you cant turn left makes me think the hoses are backwards. Heat and burping fluid means you need some sort of cooler.

How come everyone uses 1/4" hose with those rams?
 

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The fact that you cant turn left makes me think the hoses are backwards. Heat and burping fluid means you need some sort of cooler.

How come everyone uses 1/4" hose with those rams?
Thats exactly what I was gonna say. Add a cooler and a larger resovoir for more fluid and get 3/8" lines. Every setup I have done has been able to turn with one finger like a cadillac.

Paul
 

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Flip your ram so the fittings are on top or near the top. There is a high possibility you are trapping air in the cylinder as it sits right now with the fittings on the bottom. And with near 40" tires I would have gone with a 2" bore ram not a 1.5" but it should still work right with a 1.5"

And another thing, did you measure your tie rod travel before installing the ram? In my experience a D44 with the assist cylinder installed on a high steer tie rod only needs 6" of travel.
 

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Agreed that you need bigger lines, bigger res, I dont know if the cyl being upside down has anything to do with it. The ones on our loader tractors are mounted like that so.....
 

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I wasn't perfectly happy with a 1.75" ram and 38's. A SE ram with a 1.5" bore to start and that thick of a rod has to be terrible retracting.
 

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The cylinder being upside down has nothing to do with it. I've ran my 2x8 cylinder both ways and noticed no difference.

Tire size doesn't have anything to do with assist ram size. The steering box does. That ram will work fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
This is a D60 front so I used a 8" Ram, However I did install some stops just in case.
The ram will bottom out 1/8" before the knuckle stops.

I guess i should have been more clear about turning left.
I can turn left IF the wheels are rolling or unstressed (flat in the yard)


I do have a cooler:


i would think that 1/4 lines would be fine , maybe just slower...

"The cylinder being upside down has nothing to do with it"


Agreed, tractors have rams mounted all types of ways.:)

whats the best way to flush the box?
 

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Put a pressure gauge on EACH of the lines to the ram, turn left and right, record the pressure, if they are the same your box and pump are good, but make sure to note the left turn vs. the right turn and make sure the ram is steering correctly, the ram shouldn't get hot if it isn't working well to the left, maybe the seals in the ram are at fault and you are hydraulically locking the ram from a turn to turn due to no return of the fluid through the box to the pump
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i have the same setup (ram, cooler) and i have 39s with a lincoln locker....no problems with temp or effort....sounds like your pump is steady bypassing.......are you sure your pump is okay?

This front is welded.



Do you use 1/4" lines as well?

The mods I did to the pump should have bumped the bypass pressure to 1350-1400.
Should I see numbers close to that on the line pressure?
 

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I only have 39.5's and before my attempt at the assisted steering I could not turn very well unless I was rolling. Very lame. I use my cj5 as a comparison. In the rocks I could steer my 36’s with little issue. And that was just a standard pump and box, nothing fancy.
I just figured that this J truck was that much heavier and had more tire contact.
here is your problem,

i think your pump is bad, if you could not move the wheels on its own, it probably is not supplying the fluid you needed then, now ithe twice the fluid demand, its taxed even more.

i added the ram first with a new box, and it did not do much, i added a new stock pump from the parts store and it did wonders... it only lasted a couple rides but that is a different story.

get you a good pump.
 

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here is your problem,

i think your pump is bad, if you could not move the wheels on its own, it probably is not supplying the fluid you needed then, now ithe twice the fluid demand, its taxed even more.

i added the ram first with a new box, and it did not do much, i added a new stock pump from the parts store and it did wonders... it only lasted a couple rides but that is a different story.

get you a good pump.
I agree, my pump did the same shit when I switched to full hydro. It was spittin fluid out and it wouldn't turn unless I was rollin. Replaced the pump and fixed all my probs.
 

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You definitely need bigger lines, a 2" ram would be more adequate, you might have the bottom fitting bottomed out too far in the box too looking from the pics. And like what was said, sounds like your pump might have taken a dump, they NEED bigger reservoirs and massive coolers.
 

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Well, I'm not the steering guru that a lot of folks here are, but I deal with hydraulics just about every day, and I will say this.

Your ram setup the way it is, will always apply more pressure turning right than left. Not one damn thing you can do about it. Any time you run a single sided ram, you have more power available to extend the ram than you do to retract it. It's all about piston area, and there is more area to extend than to retract.

I'd guess, roughly that you have about 3/4 the power available turning left, than right, just looking at the dimensions of your ram.

figure it this way, the power of the ram is equal to the area of the piston times the pressure(PSI) acting on it. assume that you have a 1.5"ram(piston area) and 2000PSI acting on it. you have a little better than 3500 lbs of force being transmitted. Easy enough, right.

Now, when you're retracting the same cylinder, you have to subtract the area taken up bu the rod, and assuming that the rod is 3/4 inch, that comes out to be about 883 lbs of force that you are losing.

in your case, it may be a lot more, as your shaft looks to be more than half your piston diameter. I don't have the specs on your ram, so I'm just spitballing here. On top of that, I'd say your hoses are probably a little small. In any case, looks like you have some bugs to work out, but if it was me, I'd try a little larger ram, or even beter, a double ended, as they apply the same force in both directions.

Doug
 

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are you sure the lines aren't backwards? the ram would only come into play when the box sees alot of force.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well that’s enough ideas to keep me busy for a while.:)
Once I shake this cold I'll get back to the barn.

I think pressure gauge is a good place to start. That would give me the most answers. Anyone got a suggestion for a gauge they have used.
 

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Use quality fluid...
 
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