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Wow I just finished reading all this and I just started on it this morning, slow reader. :flipoff2:

I am not going to go back and quote Kurtuleas, I think he hit on something that might help. I have been pondering this idea for awhile and Kurt kind of brought it up. How about 2 or 3 Trail Port-O-Pottys? These would be self contained rigs with the capability to travel the Con, store waste, supply spillage containment supplies, and etc. It would be a usable port-o-potty on wheels.

- Cost? Get donations (cash/old rigs/parts/etc.) Have local fab shops donate some time to build these rigs. Maybe have the agencies donate funds to build these rigs (although I know they are tapped because the economy). Donations will also go for fuel, matinees, and etc.

-Disposal of human waste? Set something up with said agencies for free waste disposal.

-Whos going to run these rigs? Volunteers from FTO/ FOTR/etc.

-Storage of rigs? Have no ideas here, sry.

This is just a idea, I know it will cost money and time to make these, but if we can collect the materials needed and build at least one rig and put it into the field for testing, and show positive results, maybe the agencies will foot the bill for another one or two more rigs.
 

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I am stoked to see new ideas... I'll read through this Monday when I'm back, but am headed up to Rubicon to work this weekend, and to listen/talk to whoever will talk/listen to me. I'm always interested in discussing ways to maintain the historic challenge of Rubicon -- they go hand-in-hand.

RTF is working to get an outhouse near the Sluice -- it'll have to be on Private Property since USFS won't allow it, but we are making good progress in negotiations. We've also obtained grant funding for a Rubcion-ready poop-pumper truck, and should have that on the trail next year to service facilities TBD... and we had RTF mid-trail education staff on the trail starting earlier this month, along with the Ellis Counting station. Some of the new ideas fit well with existing efforts, and some others are strong directions that bear further exploration.

Gotta go, but don't worry, I've got my wag bag. :p

Randii (out for the weekend)
 

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I wish iI could type better:laughing: Its hard for me to put whats in my head down on the keyboard, it always comes out weird. Anyways not that it really matters but this is my last stand, I am done after this. I have given time, sweat, and money, to apparently do jack shit. I am tired of getting nowhere. I am not blaming anyone, it is what it is. I guess I will some day get to drive my eco freindly al gore mobile thru the rubicon dr. on my way to look at Lake Tahoe, and tell my kids about how it used to be. I am always a responsible trail user, always have been probably always will be, even though it dosen't seem to make a difference. Scott cracks me up though, I have probably been to and thru the con more times than he has said the word "rubicon". Shit the con kept me out of trouble in high school, why go to some kegger when you and some buddies could go wheelin and campin! Well anyways like I said got tons of things going thru my mind I can't put down on the screen, it always is all jarbled.... unlike scott I WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY CHANGE IN THE BOX AT ALL!!! That being said, I am not a leader but a follower, a pawn, point me in the direction you need help. I will make, pay for, install a sign. WTF is there to talk about, tell me what you want it to say, I will get up there next weekend, no biggie. Rent the equipment and get the materials I will build a toilet, I could get a excavator to spider. But if the box still gets altered, then I am out, done wasting time. Hope they post speed limits next cause you bet your ass I will be "that guy" :mad3:
 

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Wow, I take a couple of hours away from Pirate to load the jeep, and this thread explodes.
Lots of good ideas, and Randy and I and the other RTF leaders will discuss some of these ideas this weekend at Rubicon Springs.
We may get heated, or maybe not. Who knows.

But good to see possible solutions here, rather than some of the typical banter of flame on...

Todd
 

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I WTF is there to talk about, tell me what you want it to say, I will get up there next weekend, no biggie. Rent the equipment and get the materials I will build a toilet, I could get a excavator to spider. But if the box still gets altered, then I am out, done wasting time. :mad3:
I was thinking the same thing You want to the sign to say what kevin posted? Let us know and we will make it happen asap. ....Also always wanted to wheel my tractor in:D Its locked, full hydro, w/ cutting brakes:D
 

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The point is there is still poop everywhere out there in and around Little Sluice.
I passed by little sluice on Monday the 6th. There was virtually no trash or spilled oil to speak of. The greenies would have us believe that the trail is knee deep in poop and gear oil following a holiday weekend.

Rigs not prepared to drive straight through the boulders can easily navigate either of the bypasses, if you got that far you can certainly take the north route up and over!

Not sure why anything needs to be fixed there? Okay, maybe the north bypass is getting a little steep where the concrete has broken off at the bottom, nothing a half day and a few FOTR volunteers can't fix.

Regards,
....Mike
I've only been there once, and that was back in June. I will say, I didn't see any poop near Little Sluice. Maybe it was too early in the season? Maybe the off-road crowd had gone to RenoRocks that weekend instead of the 'Con (we went in on a Monday). So I haven't seen this "poop everywhere" personally.

I would like to help in any way that I can, and I'd be disappointed and sad to see the box blown up :(
 

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WTF is there to talk about, tell me what you want it to say, I will get up there next weekend, no biggie. Rent the equipment and get the materials I will build a toilet, I could get a excavator to spider. But if the box still gets altered, then I am out, done wasting time. Hope they post speed limits next cause you bet your ass I will be "that guy" :mad3:
I was thinking the same thing You want to the sign to say what kevin posted? Let us know and we will make it happen asap. ....Also always wanted to wheel my tractor in:D Its locked, full hydro, w/ cutting brakes:D
Give a call to [email protected] Torchmate...see if he will make a sign on the plasma table, like the we-rock throphies...that way at least no one will shoot holes in it;)
 

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The August 15th Little Sluice meeting will be with many vendors from the tri-county area, several have already confirmed. I'll post the details in a new thread soon.

Jeff at MFS is making the phone calls, get back to him if he's left you a voice mail. :D
 

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I haven't read this whole thread, so I might get slapped with a SEARCH whatever. But my question is - is there a scheduled time when we're supposed to go up there and 'protest'??

This is up on CL....

There is a report that little sluice will be blasted, or chemically desrtoyed by the middle of next week..AKA Jeep Jamboree. This weekend is the work party weekend for the Jambos and if its going to happen it will probably be between now and Sunday, maybe early next week. Rally the troops people. call whoever you can. if you care about this you should know where to look for info.
 

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I sent my letter to Tom. Here it is,
"Tom,
I have been gearing up to make the trek of doing the Rubicon in my 4wd this year. I'm a responsible 4 wheeler and have heard that this trail is one of the top ten trails in the world. People who go to this spot, some of whom are far away, come here for a test of person and machine. I cannot wait to tell people that I have been to the famed trail. I've been purchasing places to do my business, AKA porta potty. Clean up kits just in case i have an unfortunate breakdown. Doing my part to be responsible about what I and many, many other love and enjoy also. I have heard that the Rubicon is cleanest it has been for twenty years. 4 wheelers are making changes that are responsible.
I've also heard that some people want certain section ( The little sluice box.) blown up and made to be an easier section. I do not know if this is true, but if it is, this is just sad. How can this even be a possibility. I have never seen the little sluice in person but in a month and a half I will be there, in person, to enjoy this 10 scale trail. This trail is not for the masses and is enjoyed by a core of people.
If this section of the trail is changed, then people will migrate to another section of the trail. Will the new hangout be modified as well. I think this is a domino effect? Don't you? This trail should remain a top 10 trail. Lets try and keep this trail what it always have been.
What can be done to keep this trail what is. I know that there is bypasses to keep everyone happy. What more do people need? I do not think we need to compromise, due to all the land we have lost that were never affected by people making there way via 4x4s.
There are more 4 wheelers now and not a lot of places to enjoy this recreation. Why do people hate 4 wheeling so much? Families do this activity together. Several different genrerations gather and play all in the same manner.
Pretty soon boating will be attacked and we will not be able to use the lakes, too many drunk drivers and boats polluting the water. Beaches will be closed due to too many people hanging around in too close of a space and making our beaches dirty. Maybe fishing is on the chopping block due to all the snagged fishing lines and hooks on shore lines. The fish them selves use the lakes and rivers as a bathroom. Lets get them out of the water. You know the list can go on and on. I just feel that we, as 4x4 enthusiast, have compromised a lot more than any other activity. Why?
I could go on and on, but I think I have spoke my mind and hope to have given you a different perspective.

Thanks for your time, Manuel Souza.

P.S. This is the land of the free, is it not? "

I hope this helps and not hurts. Just trying to be proactive.
 

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I already have received a reply.
"
I will be out of the office starting 07/17/2009 and will not return until
07/19/2009.

I will respond to your message when I return."

LOL. Yeah I know it's the weekend, DUH.
 

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You know, I was just crafting a reply to one of the messages posted here this evening. Funny thing - that message is now missing. Same thing happened when we started discussing the surprises at Gatekeeper! Perhaps this forum should be limited to posts about trips, dates and trail running information.

That said, you do realize that some yahoos defaced public lands by dragging those rocks into the "little sluice". People used to drive dune buggies through there. Fact is, the little sluice is a stark and lasting reminder of what the dark side of this sport is all about!! I say blow it to hell! Now, natural formations – like Gatekeeper – different story – and the events that lead up to the destruction of that were just wrong.

As for the trail being a 10 - get serious!! Go to the Hammers sometime. The Rubicon is a scenic trail that will test the inexperienced, but would just qualify as a challenge for a reasonably built rig, let alone some of the buggies or “super rigs” I’ve seen on the trail. You know what would be funny, seeing if these guys with the 40”+ tires could drive a vehicle though with more historically sized tires – say 31” and no lockers. It’s a whole different world on the trail when you have a less capable rig – and that is – without question - the heritage of this trail! I’m not saying that the trail needs to be paved, but historically this trail has been open to use by reasonably equipped street legal 4x4 vehicles. When I use the trail I do it in my street legal vehicle which I drive to and from the trail. Personally, I don’t think non-street legal vehicles should be allowed – it is a county road after all.

And while I am exercising my right to free speech… I also believe we should pay to play here. $25 a rig – what a bargain – what else could you do for $25 that would be as much fun! You have to pay for a campfire permit - why not pay for a trail use permit – call it a “toll road” if you have too. I won’t go as far as saying there should be a tire size limitation, but I think that’s a reasonable discussion point. The folks with the giant tires seem to be the ones looking for harder obstacles to prove themselves on – more often than not off the trail.

Well, that’s enough for tonight. In the end, the one thing I hope for, regardless of the final outcome, is that the decision making process used here is more open and responsible than the one that lead to the travesty at Gatekeeper.
 

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And while I am exercising my right to free speech… I also believe we should pay to play here. $25 a rig – what a bargain – what else could you do for $25 that would be as much fun! You have to pay for a campfire permit - why not pay for a trail use permit – call it a “toll road” if you have too. I won’t go as far as saying there should be a tire size limitation, but I think that’s a reasonable discussion point. The folks with the giant tires seem to be the ones looking for harder obstacles to prove themselves on – more often than not off the trail.
Exactly how much did you pay for your last campfire permit? Where did you get it, and when?

Regards,
....Mike
 
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