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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
okay heres the deal. i have a couple of years before i get to my senior project for mechanical engineering. my idea is to develop some bolt on portal axles. i have a long way to go but i feel with the help from four wheeling junky's i can get some good ideas.

here is my problem.

1. which axle do i use? since i have a toyota i would naturaly want to develop them for use on a toyota. although birfield joint failure would be a major problem.

2. how the hell am i going to get a decent gear ratio. and what do you think would be a good gear ratio for the portal hub. i plan on designing it as a center sun gear and two plantary gears.

3. i'd like to make a little more width front and rear and this would probably give me a lot.

4. i fell the axle, nonsteering axle is going to be the easiest. i plan on running 4.11 gear ratios and with a 2.?? : 1 it would be pretty well geared. combined with a crawler box we're talking loads of gearing

5. how much offset from the axle should the portal have for good ground clearence?

thanks i have a very active mind because sleep sometimes does not come easily.

what axles do you think this would work the best on and why. thanks.
 

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Well I disagree, the 9" has been done to death. I say develop a portal that can be used on Dana 44's! that's right. Before 60's hit huge a few years ago everyone and his sister ran Dana 44's. I think if you re-engineered the knuckles to take the load so the ball joints weren't the weak link that it could be done easy. I'd look at both Mogs and Volvo designs esp. if you want to make them for the Toy axle ( basically that's what the Volvo's are ). The rear should be easy if you could make a flange style hook-up for the portal to bolt up to on the axle tube. The 44 with strong portals would be a killer axle with great clearance. With 3.54 gears and 2 to 1 portal gears that gives you a 7.08 just in the axle, it's a little steep but this kind of mod is for people looking for off-road performance in mind only anyway. Good luck!
 

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IMHO, if you do a toyota portal, make it around 1.35:1 so that it will bring the 4.10 down to about 5.50, and still be able to be driven on the street.
If you do a dana 44, i would do somewhere in the 1.35-2:1 range, and i think the key would be being able to change the ratio of the portal depending on the application.

Garrett
 

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Inside info, Daniel?

You don't happen to know anyone trying to make these do you?
How's the price vs strength department? that's my biggest concern. With everyone saying Mogs are the chit....but they have weak portal housings, and Volvo's can't hold up to anything over 38's, it just makes you wonder. I think someone should come up with an entirely new axle using the best idea's from the already numerous conversions. Something simple, light and strong with good clearance ( cause that's what portals are all about anyway ) that can handle 44's and a big block...what a minute, sorry that's the southern boy in me... 44's and a small block :D and hold up. Now would that be so hard! Daniel you need to make some 2.5 ton portals, imagine the clearance on those babies with some 53" tires :eek:
Man, this could turn into a good thread, I know I'd love to have some portal style axles but right now the $$$ and time to fab them in is just too much!
 

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That sounds like a great idea. A while ago there was a thread about a Korean rig that had a d44/d60 portal axle (search for Korean rock crawling). Also there was a rig on full metal challenge that had portals. Both of these rigs used chains and sprockets to transfer power instead of gears. I would stick with the gears if I could.
 

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Daniel said:
Chains can handle direct/normal load out of the back of a transmission.. once they are hub reduced they cannot take the torque multiplied that many times ...also chains cannot handle the shock load as well as a gear

ALL production portals manufactured on a large scale throughout history have been gear driven.... there is a reason for that .....

SHHHHHHHHHHH

DONT TELL HIM THAT!

I love CARNAGE! :flipoff2:
 

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The pic that daniel posted is off the rig that one the australian tuff truck comp. I hear they are also about to make a two gear design like a mogs that bolt onto a toy diff centre (that is run upside down) I also here they are talking to a very prominant US company that is already into supplying aftermarket portal axles???

There is anther company down here that makes bolt on portals for rover axles, they have been making them for the last few years although I dont know how many sets they have sold. Ive never herd of them being on a US rock crawler yet so I dont know that anyone knows how strong they are.

Sam
 

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70~K5 said:
I would think starting with a 9" ford would be best for all the aftermarket parts.
I agree, not only for the aftermarket following, but also for the ability to fabricate a housing that would better hold up to the portal design. Portals add on a lot of leverage. I don't think a D44 housing would handle it very long.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
i saw the red neck fab on that tlc show. with the chain and sproket portals.

if i am going to build portals they are going to be built with gears. to mean gears are tons stronger then chains and will last a lot longer. nothing like blowing up a chain in the middle of a compition.
 

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Daniel said:
Chains can handle direct/normal load out of the back of a transmission.. once they are hub reduced they cannot take the torque multiplied that many times
Not true. Just need to choose the right chain for the application and the appropriate sprocket diameter. Have you ever seen a motorgrader (road grader)? They are almost all chain driven rear tandems. Cat's 24H runs a 600HP 3412 diesel, weighs in at 130,000lbs and the chains live around 20000hrs of severe duty. Wide flat chains like what's run on a transfer case could also work but the chain pitch would need to be increased to handle the torque. If you want to pay for exotic materials and processes the chain life can be increased dramatically.

That said. Gears are a much better choice for portals because they are much more compact for the same load capability.
 

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Daniel said:
Bolt on portals are coming VERY soon from at least 3 companies...
The only ones on the market now are mog conversions Hummvee conversions and these From "Aussieland for TOY fans:)

I am excited to see the competition warm up
Price VS features.

Pic is the Wonder from Down under :D
hey daniel, that right there portal is attached to a 9"

if you want some more pics of the machine email me!!

P.S. id like to know more of what you know about these ideas and stuff ;) :D
 

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Bolt on portals are coming VERY soon from at least 3 companies...
Maxi Drive in Austrailia makes bolt on portal axles for Rover axles now.
1. which axle do i use? since i have a toyota i would naturaly want to develop them for use on a toyota. although birfield joint failure would be a major problem.
No it wouldn't. in fact, your birfield joint life should improve along with that of the axle shafts! Why? Much of the gear reduction occurs after the birfield. Sso for example: with a 2:1 in the hubs, the birfield would only see half the gear reduction.
 

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oh yeah and that rig has 44" boggers, 400CI chev, and nice gear selection

full hydraulic adjustable suspension, and weighs 2700kilograms or more

and its a FJ45 landcruiser :flipoff2:

hey daniel, got any closer pics of that rockwell with portals? or clearer ones at least?
 

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don't listen to the 9" nay sayers, they don't know what they are talking about

as a fellow ME student here is why i would go 9" (take note that i too don't sleep and can only think about shit like this, i even tried to get my to get my roomate to do them for his senior project)

anyways
the 9in is strong
1. pinion bearing = very strong b/c no gear deflection which is the main cause of wheeling related gear failure
2. have you seen the pinion on these suckers

go here and click on why a nine

The nine is versital
1. there are many gear ratio's available (2.50 - 7.00)
this means someone like me who still wants to drive on the street can get teh 2.50 and end up with a 5.0 or lower effective ratio (based on 2:1 portal)
2. Many different shaft sizes (28 - spline all the way to CAMO 40 spline)
3. Many different widths available - some one who doesn't want to be full width doesn't have to or you can go super wide for teh rockwell lovers
4. Cost - 9 in axels are plenitful and CHEAP

I DON"T LIKE FORDS BUT YOU CAN"T BEAT A NINE INCH
 

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why not a D44?

not enough aftermarket support

lack quality of design that a 9 in has

not a 3rd member style

WEAK R+P

how many of you have broken a R+P on a D44
 
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