[kdub0013]

You said it. This thread like many others about the con are sad and depressing. I try to follow and keep in the now but my brain housing group does not track all the banter back and forth about this crap, it's too political for me. I just do my part when I go and pick up trash and cig butts along the way, I can't get involved in all this nonsense, not that I don't appreciate those who do volunteer their free time, and I thank you.

 

[billybob13]

You said it. This thread like many others about the con are sad and depressing. I try to follow and keep in the now but my brain housing group does not track all the banter back and forth about this crap, it's too political for me. I just do my part when I go and pick up trash and cig butts along the way, I can't get involved in all this nonsense, not that I don't appreciate those who do volunteer their free time, and I thank you.

glad i'm not alone.

i don't know shit, but i do know that last month, and last year, and 5 years ago, and 50 years ago, and 100 years ago, people were sharing a trail that had obstacles to overcome. it seems that there is a new obstacle and it's not the kind of obstacle that drew us to this sport or lifestyle. once again, i don't know shit, but i know that we can each sacrifice a little bit to allow us to share natures beauty. what can you afford to give up?

 

[cjcraig7]

You may be "very sure", but you are dead wrong. The last time El Dorado COunty maintained the Rubicon was in 1939, about the time the famous Studebaker picture was taken. The road was absolutely county maintained, and around Sweeney's birth it looked like the picture.

Prior to wheeled transportation and Sweeney's birth, was a tongue in cheek reference to 10,000 years ago. But, thanks for the history lesson.:shaking:

And with respect to your new political catch phrase: "rumor mongering," deploying it makes you appear frustrated and argumentative.

If you do not enjoy this thread, go elsewhere and quit bumping it and calling people out.

Be happy or, simply lighten up and allow others to express themselves. Share your wealth of knowledge about the area, as you are not nearly as effective when you low-brow the crowd.

 

[resqme]

So what, now you're the PBB Life Coach? No thanks.

For me, if this thread is about people wanting to complain or express dismay, I empathize. Personally, I like facts that help us understand (that would be the knowledge sharing part).

On the other hand, if people want to make personal attacks and spread rumors, I have a problem with that. That's *me* expressing *myself*.

 

[cruzila]

You said it. This thread like many others about the con are sad and depressing. I try to follow and keep in the now but my brain housing group does not track all the banter back and forth about this crap, it's too political for me. I just do my part when I go and pick up trash and cig butts along the way, I can't get involved in all this nonsense, not that I don't appreciate those who do volunteer their free time, and I thank you.

Not to try to make less of anything you are doing out there to keep it clean, but.....the things that made the Rubicon a political hot potato are not cig butts and trash. While for the most part wheelers actually take care of their camps better than most. (Something I have learned from my experiences, we really do!).

The reason for all the hoopla is erosion, oil spills and human waste. Each wheeler on the trail, while out there in the dry season, has no real impact on erosion. Water is needed for that equation. The other two can be attacked and taken care of. I have personally witnessed many times, wheelers that stop, get out and whip out their spill kits to clean up someone else's mess. The same for those that are cleaning up after themselves. I say that I think the education is working!!

As for the human waste issue, people can be pretty disgusting and not take care of business. Fact! Some people, like the club Pirates of the Rubicon, go out each year and take care of it for those that can or will not. Without that type of cleanup, the political folks will have a reason to complain. Kudos to all those that do that nasty work!! Education is working there too!! In fact Cal4 took that yellow bandana campaign Statewide last year. Everybody poops! I have seen it in the streets of Sacramento.

Back to erosion. Because spills and poop are so easy to take care of, just clean up and get more people to take that responsibility, that leaves erosion. The claim is that sediment is reaching or contaminating the Waters of the State. Much more difficult to just take care of. El Dorado County for the good of taking care of the business of erosion on the Rubicon has dedicated OHV funding to stabilizing areas that have erosion and the potential for erosion. While going in to a debate about details of that can go on forever, this project is a short term project in that the heavy equipment will be out there for a short period of time. Short being the couple years already and maybe one more.

After that, there will be some ongoing maintenance and monitoring.

Here is where if we are to lose motorized access, we stand to lose the trail. Thank God the County stepped up and made the effort to keep this trail open AS a motorized trail. Because of Rubicon Trail Foundation and the FOTR folks that started it, the intent is to keep it open year round.

Here is where each trail user has the responsibility to do their part to keep the trail open. This years campaign is a green bandana that represents sedimentation issues. So, in essence we have just begun the education on this issue. FOTR will have the responsibility to get out there each summer and maintain what the County started. Also, RTF will have the political responsibility to see that the monitoring required by the County happens as it is supposed to.

The bottom line here is that the work, the volunteering, the education has to keep on going forever. If we want to keep the trail open for future generations it is an absolute requirement that these things be done. They may be done grudgingly, or with muttered explicitives SP?, but they have to happen if the trail is to be kept open.

I firmly believe that the trail will have its reputation intact for years to come as a place to go where the wheeling is good and the scenery is the best in the world. It will take hard work to get it done and is something very doable.

Thanks for making the effort to keep the trail clean. I hope to see you there in the future with a shovel or a wag bag helping to keep,the trail open!! I will be there.


Sent from my cool iPad I won at the Rock Zombie rig wash!

 

[CJ72]

The claim is that sediment is reaching or contaminating the Waters of the State.

Common sense tells me this is pure BS.

 

[sloyoter]

Not to try to make less of anything you are doing out there to keep it clean, but.....the things that made the Rubicon a political hot potato are not cig butts and trash. While for the most part wheelers actually take care of their camps better than most. (Something I have learned from my experiences, we really do!).

The reason for all the hoopla is erosion, oil spills and human waste. Each wheeler on the trail, while out there in the dry season, has no real impact on erosion. Water is needed for that equation. The other two can be attacked and taken care of. I have personally witnessed many times, wheelers that stop, get out and whip out their spill kits to clean up someone else's mess. The same for those that are cleaning up after themselves. I say that I think the education is working!!

As for the human waste issue, people can be pretty disgusting and not take care of business. Fact! Some people, like the club Pirates of the Rubicon, go out each year and take care of it for those that can or will not. Without that type of cleanup, the political folks will have a reason to complain. Kudos to all those that do that nasty work!! Education is working there too!! In fact Cal4 took that yellow bandana campaign Statewide last year. Everybody poops! I have seen it in the streets of Sacramento.

Back to erosion. Because spills and poop are so easy to take care of, just clean up and get more people to take that responsibility, that leaves erosion. The claim is that sediment is reaching or contaminating the Waters of the State. Much more difficult to just take care of. El Dorado County for the good of taking care of the business of erosion on the Rubicon has dedicated OHV funding to stabilizing areas that have erosion and the potential for erosion. While going in to a debate about details of that can go on forever, this project is a short term project in that the heavy equipment will be out there for a short period of time. Short being the couple years already and maybe one more.

After that, there will be some ongoing maintenance and monitoring.

Here is where if we are to lose motorized access, we stand to lose the trail. Thank God the County stepped up and made the effort to keep this trail open AS a motorized trail. Because of Rubicon Trail Foundation and the FOTR folks that started it, the intent is to keep it open year round.

Here is where each trail user has the responsibility to do their part to keep the trail open. This years campaign is a green bandana that represents sedimentation issues. So, in essence we have just begun the education on this issue. FOTR will have the responsibility to get out there each summer and maintain what the County started. Also, RTF will have the political responsibility to see that the monitoring required by the County happens as it is supposed to.

The bottom line here is that the work, the volunteering, the education has to keep on going forever. If we want to keep the trail open for future generations it is an absolute requirement that these things be done. They may be done grudgingly, or with muttered explicitives SP?, but they have to happen if the trail is to be kept open.

I firmly believe that the trail will have its reputation intact for years to come as a place to go where the wheeling is good and the scenery is the best in the world. It will take hard work to get it done and is something very doable.

Thanks for making the effort to keep the trail clean. I hope to see you there in the future with a shovel or a wag bag helping to keep,the trail open!! I will be there.


Sent from my cool iPad I won at the Rock Zombie rig wash!

Actually, in my humble opinion. We seem to lose focus on who really caused grief for the Con' That would be Karen Shambach and her cabal of enviro zealots. I am sure she and her cadre are wringing their hands in glee as people spend time splitting hairs and accusing each other of maladies that are minor compared to the big picture.

As much as I dislike her ilk, I will at least give her a small (very small) nod for making us pay attention to the trail.

That being said however, the pot stirring and political infighting needs to stop. Regardless of our opinions of groups we should not let ourselves be divided. ( I am guilty of stirring the pot as well in a knee jerk moment or two...)

Various people and groups will not be perfect BUT AT LEAST WE HAVE THEM.
Many a trail has been closed due to lack of organization and support.

Now then, 42 trails (=105 or so actually ) need to be reopened so there will be less traffic on the RUbicon (no doubt an alterior motive of KMR clan) The Sluice will recover over time and the trail is still the best maintained and still rigorous. Let's not lose sight of who our real nemesis is ......
$.02 added....

 

[cjcraig7]

So what, now you're the PBB Life Coach? No thanks.

For me, if this thread is about people wanting to complain or express dismay, I empathize. Personally, I like facts that help us understand (that would be the knowledge sharing part).

On the other hand, if people want to make personal attacks and spread rumors, I have a problem with that. That's *me* expressing *myself*.

So...is "PBB Life Coach" a personal attack or part of your empathetic arsenal? Otherwise, thanks for sharing.

Anyway, I finally got to get away with a group and see the box (post reduction) for myself. Simply surreal, and actually not the toughest spot on the trail anymore. The large boulders that were split and others were arranged in a high deck roadway effect and rubbled in between. Mid-day, Heckler had about 30 or so people cheering the 35 crowd through the sluice.

Besides several 4 door JKs on 37s going through, a Suburban went through as well. Locked 2-door jeeps make easy, almost uninterrupted forward progress all the way through. And, an open/open JK on 37s had very little trouble.

On a high note, it appears that DOT did some grooming to Soup Bowl. Hopefully, in an attempt to keep traffic moving but, keep the obstacle open.
Overall, the trail is not paved, and should be challenging to the masses. A couple of the rock gardens are getting pretty well worn.

Still a lot of fun to be had for now.

 

[g dunn]

On a high note, it appears that DOT did some grooming to Soup Bowl. Hopefully, in an attempt to keep traffic moving but, keep the obstacle open.
Overall, the trail is not paved, and should be challenging to the masses. A couple of the rock gardens are getting pretty well worn.

Do you have any pic's you could post of the change's

 

[cjcraig7]

Do you have any pic's you could post of the change's

With respect to Soup, the moving slab in front has been removed. I don't know if it is the boulder near my rear driver or not. I thought the old boulder was squarer and larger. ? Also, the digs in front have been filled with rubble. There is a fresh boulder pile wrapping a slope to the driver side of Soup. The old boulder may be part of that.

 

[resqme]

Craig is correct, they moved the large boulder to the left side of the obstacle along with a lot of the smaller stuff in order to keep the obstacle from getting wider to the left. If we stay off that boulder pile (so that it doesn't get pushed back into the trail), I think we can make a good case to the county to keep from modifying it further.

Remember, this is about alleged erosion. If we stay on the hardscape that exists and not get in the vegetation and soil on either side of the obstacle, the argument that we are causing soil to get into the water won't be valid.

 

[cjcraig7]

The rock pile is there behind/below the Marine.

And while Soup's approach has had the mover removed, that doesn't necessarily mean getting up and over it is any easier. The 4-door couldn't catch an upper edge - didn't make it.

 

[crawllr]

suburban in the box. wow

just got back from the trail. sat 10/13/12 we were at the box. watched a full size suburban. yes no b.s. A suburban on prob 35 inch tires went through made it look easy.I was shocked to see it like that. so sad.

 

[kdub0013]

just got back from the trail. sat 10/13/12 we were at the box. watched a full size suburban. yes no b.s. A suburban on prob 35 inch tires went through made it look easy.I was shocked to see it like that. so sad.

Pics or it didn't happen :laughing:

 

[crawllr]

Pics or it didn't happen :laughing:

i have a whole vid of it. that cut up rubicon in pics, 3 post before was there when the suburban drove through also. i have only 37 inch tires on mine i went through easy. about 6 new jk jeeps went through right before me. a ford ranger also. it is gone. no more box. like i said wow sad.

 

[kdub0013]

i have a whole vid of it. that cut up rubicon in pics, 3 post before was there when the suburban drove through also. i have only 37 inch tires on mine i went through easy. about 6 new jk jeeps went through right before me. a ford ranger also. it is gone. no more box. like i said wow sad.

Wow, that is truly unfortunate, not sure why I'm building tons and going to 42's then, oh well.

 

[cruzila]

On a high note, it appears that DOT did some grooming to Soup Bowl. Hopefully, in an attempt to keep traffic moving but, keep the obstacle open.


With respect to Soup, the moving slab in front has been removed. I don't know if it is the boulder near my rear driver or not. I thought the old boulder was squarer and larger. ? Also, the digs in front have been filled with rubble. There is a fresh boulder pile wrapping a slope to the driver side of Soup. The old boulder may be part of that.

Your welcome.....:flipoff2:

 

[cjcraig7]

Your welcome.....:flipoff2:

For what? Again, I am confused as to whether you are posting personally or doing RTF business.

If you were involved personally, or RTF was involved as an entity to mitigate or solve problems associated with the preservation of a portion of the trail, stand up and be applauded.

I know what you do is sometimes a thankless job, but communicating to the 4wd community what is being done, in advance of countless rumors, you and yours may find helpful to the cause.

Example: Press Release from RTF.
"We know with all the losses associated with the Rubicon Trail of late, as an organization, RTF has decided to draw the line on the closing of the high difficulty obstacle known as Soup Bowl. We have been in touch with the county and have clearly articulated to them that any attempt(s) to permanently close this obstacle will be deemed by RTF as clearly over the line with respect to satisfying the CAO requirements. If trail users here have an interest, as RTF does at preserving Soup Bowl for future generations, send your hostile emails to *insert Sweeney's email address.*

RTF Out. Send your donations, bla, bla, bla.

As you may know, I stay informed (connected to the rumor mill) through many sources, some even close to you. As a result, I had already, at least in my mind, given the credit for Soup to another entity. *Further confused*

If you were involved to any extent, as your sarcasm suggests, thank you very much for a job well done.

 

[cruzila]

Again, your welcome. You are not confused. Your post here could be confusing as it may seem to be an actual press release.

 

[ddestruel]

from what ive heard from from those moving rocks, soup was slated to be closed and or neutered instead they moved the problem rocks and created a new obsticle above and will pack in some rock at the bottom to prevent any frivilous errossion claims

but thats just hear say. but alot beter than it going away

sluice is definately different but not the end of the world it will move around and change as time progresses