Lowest Leaf Sprung Wrangler

Cumminshunter · 2011-12-26

Who has the lowest COG Wrangler WITH LEAFS? Looking for ideas to lower mine. So far, Hi lining the hood, and making a flat belly skid plate are on the list....

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nextgenXJ

· #21 · Dec 27, 2011

run your leafs upside down with some 205/60r16 tires

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newmarketEOD

· #22 · Dec 27, 2011 (Edited)

Was right around 20-21 inches when I was on the 38.5 SXs, maybe 22-23 now on the new PBR 39.5s (Haven't measured recently). Sprung over on very worn in 2.5 BDS leafs, heavily frenched in. I am not highlined so the tires just barely rub the tops of the fenders at full stuff but it doesn't bother me.

Something to note, if you want to be really nice and low, you will need to be well skid plated. My belly skid stretches from the rear of the front spring to the front of the rear springs, with notches for the driveshafts. I still need to do a bit more skidplating due to the oil pan being exposed, smashed the hell out of it on the last trip.

Also may find some good information within these threads:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=724091&highlight=lcg&page=6
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=960433&highlight=lcg&page=2

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MuddyPaws

· #23 · Dec 27, 2011

newmarketEOD said:
Something to note, if you want to be really nice and low, you will need to be well skid plated. My belly skid stretches from the rear of the front spring to the front of the rear springs, with notches for the driveshafts. I still need to do a bit more skidplating due to the oil pan being exposed, smashed the hell out of it on the last trip.

That's why I don't fully understand this new super low fad. It might work in some areas but I have a lot of jagged rock chunks I wheel in...not nice smooth slick rock. It really can rip a ton of stuff up on the bottom and I hate smashing my crap on stuff all the time.

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newmarketEOD

· #24 · Dec 27, 2011

MuddyPaws said:
That's why I don't fully understand this new super low fad. It might work in some areas but I have a lot of jagged rock chunks I wheel in...not nice smooth slick rock. It really can rip a ton of stuff up on the bottom and I hate smashing my crap on stuff all the time.

For me it the incredible stability I get from being that low is well worth it. My low height has yet to hinder me by getting caught on anything and being New England our rocks aren't smooth and slick. Does it hit? Yes. But that is what armor is for. It's a wheeling rig, its going to smash on stuff no matter what.

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jeepbonehead

· #25 · Dec 27, 2011

I have a yj on tons and 40's that had about 6-7" of lift, i got it down to around 4, and when i come home from deployment in a couple months i'll be lowering it another 2" but running a flat belly. i'll report back when i do

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BenE

· #26 · Dec 27, 2011

newmarketEOD said:
My low height has yet to hinder me by getting caught on anything.

If you’ve never got your belly caught on anything, then you aren’t wheeling. Period. The lower your belly is the more shit you will get it hung up on. Period.
It’s a balance; you need ground clearance without getting top heavy.
Like said above, the fad used to be tall, tall, tall, and now (or two years ago anyway) it’s low, low, low. Both are non-ideal, to really tackle obstacles you need a balanced rig.

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newmarketEOD

· #27 · Dec 27, 2011

BenE said:
If you’ve never got your belly caught on anything, then you aren’t wheeling. Period. The lower your belly is the more shit you will get it hung up on. Period.
It’s a balance; you need ground clearance without getting top heavy.
Like said above, the fad used to be tall, tall, tall, and now (or two years ago anyway) it’s low, low, low. Both are non-ideal, to really tackle obstacles you need a balanced rig.

Perhaps I worded that incorrectly, I have not encountered a trail or obstacle YET that I haven't been able to do strictly because of my low belly height.
Will it happen, definitively however I think the LCG will open more trails due to the incredible stability then it will close to my low belly height.

Also I do agree that some rigs can be just too slow, although I would say you would have to be sub-20 to approach that statement, and even still it all depends on wheeling style, the way the rest of the vehicle is set up and, as you already stated, overall vehicle balance.

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DutchVDub

· #28 · Dec 27, 2011

Another thing to remember is that a tall roof doesn't necessarily mean a high center of gravity. Everything of weight on my rig is either right onto of the frame or lower. The few pieces of DOM above my head aren't going to raise my COG in comparison to the cast iron t-case between the frame rails. My jeep has always been about 2" wider than tall with all of the weight being at around the same height as the drivetrain. I have flopped it, but that was after having my driver side tire fall off the side of a 4ft ledge I was trying climb. Other than that it's been very stable.

I'm going for about 4" of suspension lift over stock, which translates into about a 2.5" - 3" drop from it's current setup. I've also raised my driveline completely above my frame so I should actually gain belly clearance.

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Jakesteramalamajama

· #29 · Dec 27, 2011

SUA helps keep the COG lower, usually at the cost of a little articulation, but flexy SUA springs can be found/made. Plus, SUA springs help protect the steering links and are less prone to wrap in the rear. Like people say: It's a balance.

Hey, if you want to keep things really low you could just go SUA with some blocks in there like the gangstas... Now them things get LOOOOOOOW.

Get Low - Lil Jon and the East Side Boys - YouTube

Jake

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Cumminshunter

Discussion Starter · #30 · Dec 27, 2011

Thanks for the replies... I did search, and am looking through the threads I've found...
Here's what I'm starting with....

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1002211&highlight=

As you can see, it's plenty tall (84") and has plenty of space between the tires and body at the current height. I'm thinking of hi lining it (should add 4") and doing a flat plate skid (from the front of the rear spring hangers to the rear of the front hangers with cut outs for the drive shafts). Currently I believe the stock skid sits at 25". I'm thinking maybe a flat belly at 24" would be best... Of course I'll also be looking at stretching the rear 6" so that adds another factor into this craziness.

Cheepin said:
I am going to give my opinion even though he didn't ask for it.How low are you trying to go?Too low and you drag everywhere.Try to keep the belly around 22" or so.I am at 22" to lowest point on 38's.SOA on 47" chevy front springs in front and a hybrid YJ pack SOA in the rear.It often drags.I am planning on going to 42's so that should get it up where I want it.If you build wide it won't be top heavy.

What wheelbase are you running? I'm running 37MTR's so that might be a good comparison. Thinking maybe the belly of the rig should be at 24" with a 6" stretch.

DutchVDub said:
Another thing to remember is that a tall roof doesn't necessarily mean a high center of gravity. Everything of weight on my rig is either right onto of the frame or lower. The few pieces of DOM above my head aren't going to raise my COG in comparison to the cast iron t-case between the frame rails. My jeep has always been about 2" wider than tall with all of the weight being at around the same height as the drivetrain. I have flopped it, but that was after having my driver side tire fall off the side of a 4ft ledge I was trying climb. Other than that it's been very stable.

I'm going for about 4" of suspension lift over stock, which translates into about a 2.5" - 3" drop from it's current setup. I've also raised my driveline completely above my frame so I should actually gain belly clearance.

That's true, there's not a whole lot of weight on the top of my rig... Adding a Big A$$ skid plate at the bottom of the frame should help too...

I've followed your rigs build for a while and I think you've got a great set up... I'll be interested to see it lowered... :grinpimp:

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Cumminshunter

Discussion Starter · #31 · Dec 27, 2011 (Edited)

Oh, and I just checked, and my front shackles have a 4-1/2" bolt center to bolt center.... That might be step 1...

Anyone know if you can run boomerang shackles on the front leaf (rear hanger) with a shackle reversal, or should I just run straight shackles?

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DutchVDub

· #32 · Dec 27, 2011

Thanks

84" on 37's??? That is pretty tall. Do you know the suspension setup or did you buy it as is? Sounds like SOA with lift springs to me. I'm not that tall on 42's. I guess it depends on where you're measuring too. I measure from the top of the windshield frame. I think the top of my b-hoop is a bit taller than that.

Terrain makes a big difference but my neighbors YJ on 37's w/ a 100" WB works really well in CO and SD. He says for Moab he's like a longer WB. His is SOA on some RE SOA springs and stock width terra60's. I think he has a 1" body lift too and a fairly tucked up (though not flat) belly. Not sure exactly what his height is though. I could ask.

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Cumminshunter

Discussion Starter · #33 · Dec 28, 2011

It's 84" at the tallest point (B pillar). It just barely fits in a standard garage.

It's got a SOA w/ 2" springs and a 2in BL. I'd take the BL off, but I'm trying to use it to move the drivetrain up into the body to do a flat belly skid and since it's already on there...

Looking at doing the motor mount lift too just to keep the angles happy.

I've been happy with the wheelbase so far. Couple of spots in moab that it would have helped to be longer, but been happy so far. I think doing the simple BTF/hangers on the rear will help.

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DutchVDub

· #34 · Dec 28, 2011 (Edited)

Well if you looked in my thread you can see I was able to raise my drivetrain (even with the big pan of the AW4) above the bottom of the frame with no body lift. All it takes is a "little" bit of floor removal.

I'm also planning on raising the motor mounts.

Go to stock or simple SOA leafpacks and lose the body lift and you'll easily be down 4". Then add in traction bars to control axle wrap.

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Cheepin

· #35 · Dec 28, 2011 (Edited)

I am at 108" wheelbase.76" to the tallest point on cage.I cut the hell out of my floor.My frickin huge SM465 still hangs an inch below the frame rails.

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biggin

· #36 · Dec 28, 2011

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5934715528/
Mine with 60's sprung under, 42's, 112wb, and 22 at the belly.

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marvilusone

· #37 · Dec 28, 2011

3

1995 YJ

2.5L, 5sp, 231, d30 chromo, 8.8, 4.88's, flatbelly, 1" drivetrain lift
stock height, stock springs, 36" TSL's w/ Staun internals.

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MuddyPaws

· #38 · Dec 28, 2011

What I have noticed is that many people raise the drive line more and more till they have everything above the frame rails so they can get a flat belly for more clearance. Then they lower the rig down to get the "look" they want.

Ok, if it's for the look, then just say it's for the look. But don't move hundreds of pounds up higher in the rig and go through all the work to chop up the floor to make it work......and in the process making your COG worse......just to come back and lower the rig to get the COG back.

All this COG stuff is anecdotal anyway. I have yet to see anyone that actually knows for sure that raising the motor and trans 3 or 4 inches and lowering the rig 2 inches actually made the COG better.

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newmarketEOD

· #39 · Dec 28, 2011

MuddyPaws said:
What I have noticed is that many people raise the drive line more and more till they have everything above the frame rails so they can get a flat belly for more clearance. Then they lower the rig down to get the "look" they want.

Ok, if it's for the look, then just say it's for the look. But don't move hundreds of pounds up higher in the rig and go through all the work to chop up the floor to make it work......and in the process making your COG worse......just to come back and lower the rig to get the COG back.

All this COG stuff is anecdotal anyway. I have yet to see anyone that actually knows for sure that raising the motor and trans 3 or 4 inches and lowering the rig 2 inches actually made the COG better.

I would agree with this. That process seems counterproductive. Although, a well thought out build and layout can grant you a low center of gravity and flat belly without raising the rest of the drivetrain higher.

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BenE

· #40 · Dec 28, 2011

MuddyPaws said:
What I have noticed is that many people raise the drive line more and more till they have everything above the frame rails so they can get a flat belly for more clearance. Then they lower the rig down to get the "look" they want.

Ok, if it's for the look, then just say it's for the look. But don't move hundreds of pounds up higher in the rig and go through all the work to chop up the floor to make it work......and in the process making your COG worse......just to come back and lower the rig to get the COG back.

All this COG stuff is anecdotal anyway. I have yet to see anyone that actually knows for sure that raising the motor and trans 3 or 4 inches and lowering the rig 2 inches actually made the COG better.

If you raise the DT 2”, then lower the whole rig down 2”, you have effectively put the drive train back in the same spot, and lowered everything else down around it.
How is that not, lowering your center of gravity (while keeping your belly height the same)?
Our sport is a game of inches, a lot of the time, so that small amount of clearance, and that small reduction in COG is a big deal, and worth it, to a lot of folks to gain.

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