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that busted up one I had a picture of is still in a box in the garage.

I'm sure I can make it fit in a flat rate box.
 

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Discussion Starter #763
I have used a 240 amp leece neville with a J180 mount on my wheeling rig. Great alt. They are common on coaches and buses. I would get a J180 mount as opposed to a pad mount, easier to adapt. Anyways I think that a L-N unit is bang on.
Just started looking into different mounting options and looks like there are a few; a 'long' and 'short' J180, in addition to the pad-mount (source).
that busted up one I had a picture of is still in a box in the garage.

I'm sure I can make it fit in a flat rate box.
That would be awesome. Need to confirm that it's got the same mounting dimensions as whatever alternator I'm going to end up running (probably J-180 long?), but would sure appreciate it if you haven't got any use for it.

Found out there's an even higher output 320-amp Leese Neville alternator available - part number 4890JB (source). Wow.

Have a few questions though.

Based on the info I was able to find online, looks like running a 320-amp 12V alternator would cost me about 5.75hp. Not too bad, but wonder if it's possible to put an alternator on a clutch or something so that it wouldn't be consuming horsepower and fuel when I didn't need it. Would save a lot of wear-and-tear on an expensive alternator too.

Might not make much sense to get anything much bigger than a 270-amp alternator though, since my inverter (Xantrex Prosine 3.0) is 'only' rated for 3000 Watts. But that's output, right? Going to have at least two huge banks of deep-cycle 6V golf cart batteries to charge. Wonder how fast I can really charge them though? Or how fast I really need to...

These super-high-output alternators have also got me thinking about the large PTO-driven generator motor that I was planning to get to power a 220V welder. Maybe I could get a pair of 270 or 320-amp alternators instead? Would require another inverter. Wonder how that would work, and what that would cost. Probably not too difficult to switch between sending power to the 110/220V inverters, and a quick google search indicates that I'm look at somewhere around $500+ for an inverter. Don't think I'd need another expensive pure-sine inverter to power a MIG welder would I? Would probably be a lot better-off just running a single high-output 24V alternator, but want to keep the vehicle's charging system isolated from any/all accessories.

Anybody have any thoughts? A bit out of my depth here.
 

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It's a j-180 mont version. It came out of a navistar truck, same case as that one you took a photo of in the big book o alternator

Wen I get some time I'll run your wattage numbers. Bear in mind that the 5.75 HP draw is only if you're putting a full load on the alternator. If it's not generating full amperage it won't take that much HP to turn. I also wouldn't worry about the longevity of the alternator. Trust me, the bearings in these things are stupid huge compared to your average delco style jobby.

pm me your address and I'll dig it out. I need to clean the garage anyway. Do you want it's guts or just the case?
 

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Found out there's an even higher output 320-amp Leese Neville alternator available - part number 4890JB (source). Wow.

Have a few questions though.

Based on the info I was able to find online, looks like running a 320-amp 12V alternator would cost me about 5.75hp. Not too bad, but wonder if it's possible to put an alternator on a clutch or something so that it wouldn't be consuming horsepower and fuel when I didn't need it. Would save a lot of wear-and-tear on an expensive alternator too.

Might not make much sense to get anything much bigger than a 270-amp alternator though, since my inverter (Xantrex Prosine 3.0) is 'only' rated for 3000 Watts. But that's output, right? Going to have at least two huge banks of deep-cycle 6V golf cart batteries to charge. Wonder how fast I can really charge them though? Or how fast I really need to...

These super-high-output alternators have also got me thinking about the large PTO-driven generator motor that I was planning to get to power a 220V welder. Maybe I could get a pair of 270 or 320-amp alternators instead? Would require another inverter. Wonder how that would work, and what that would cost. Probably not too difficult to switch between sending power to the 110/220V inverters, and a quick google search indicates that I'm look at somewhere around $500+ for an inverter. Don't think I'd need another expensive pure-sine inverter to power a MIG welder would I? Would probably be a lot better-off just running a single high-output 24V alternator, but want to keep the vehicle's charging system isolated from any/all accessories.

Anybody have any thoughts? A bit out of my depth here.
Weld with the alternator.
It is 3 phase.
Instead of 60 Hz, it is something like 7000 Hz, and the super high frequency makes it easier to weld with.
I have a Link Ark on board welder head unit (and 160amp alt) and it separates the vehicles charging system when you want to weld. Then you trim the engine speed to the amperage you need, and go to town. The vehicle runs off of the stored battery power while using the unit.
Or you could run two separate systems and just use one alt for welding or running your inverter.
Like the weldinator
http://mhickok.blogspot.com/2008/06/weldernator-true-power.html
 

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You may be interested in this:

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=23396&#entry236885
simonr said:
As a rule of thumb, the most you can reasonably put through a regular V belt (13 or 10mm) is about 3hp - but at 3hp it will be trying to catch fire. 3Hp is roughly 2.2kw = 180A

If you allow a safety margin so that it will not be trying to catch fire - I would guess at 100A being about the limit.

A PolyVee (serpentine) vehicle belt can be good for up to 8hp or up to 500A - so, say 250A with some margin.
 

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Discussion Starter #767
It's a j-180 mont version. It came out of a navistar truck, same case as that one you took a photo of in the big book o alternator

Wen I get some time I'll run your wattage numbers. Bear in mind that the 5.75 HP draw is only if you're putting a full load on the alternator. If it's not generating full amperage it won't take that much HP to turn. I also wouldn't worry about the longevity of the alternator. Trust me, the bearings in these things are stupid huge compared to your average delco style jobby.

pm me your address and I'll dig it out. I need to clean the garage anyway. Do you want it's guts or just the case?
Wasn't really sure how alternators work, whether they're putting-out full-power all the time, or only on demand.

Awesome, thanks. Would be great if it had a shaft that I could use to line-up the pulleys, but that's really all I need. PM coming your way.

Weld with the alternator.
It is 3 phase.
Instead of 60 Hz, it is something like 7000 Hz, and the super high frequency makes it easier to weld with.
I have a Link Ark on board welder head unit (and 160amp alt) and it separates the vehicles charging system when you want to weld. Then you trim the engine speed to the amperage you need, and go to town. The vehicle runs off of the stored battery power while using the unit.
Or you could run two separate systems and just use one alt for welding or running your inverter.
Like the weldinator
http://mhickok.blogspot.com/2008/06/weldernator-true-power.html
Thanks, but I'm not talking about powering an onboard welder. Should have been a little more clear. Probably going to end up with a Miller Passport Plus in the trailer/workshop. When I asked about power supply, they told me that unit can draw up to 6000 watts initially, and then something more like 4000 watts while welding. Runs on 115/230V.



Thanks, that is interesting. The stock configuration uses double V-belts, but like I was saying, think I might end up switching over to a serpentine setup. Helpful to know what the limitations of each are in any case though. Thanks again for posting.
 

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Wasn't really sure how alternators work, whether they're putting-out full-power all the time, or only on demand.

Awesome, thanks. Would be great if it had a shaft that I could use to line-up the pulleys, but that's really all I need. PM coming your way.
An alternaotr is always generating a solid voltage.
Voltage is what pushes current. So if the battery is lower than the 13.6 the alternator is putting out the voltage pushes amperage to the battery. Amperage is current, it's what does actual work.

So if everything is charged up there's no need for the current, so the alternator just keeps the voltage up, but it's not doing any real work.

http://www.slideshare.net/ram_ari/alternator-winding

good general knowledge.

I've got the guts and the shaft with the pulley. The shaft got bent when he tried to pull the pulley. The pulley is also a little wonky. Good enough for a solid mockup.
 

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Wasn't really sure how alternators work, whether they're putting-out full-power all the time, or only on demand.

Awesome, thanks. Would be great if it had a shaft that I could use to line-up the pulleys, but that's really all I need. PM coming your way.


Thanks, but I'm not talking about powering an onboard welder. Should have been a little more clear. Probably going to end up with a Miller Passport Plus in the trailer/workshop. When I asked about power supply, they told me that unit can draw up to 6000 watts initially, and then something more like 4000 watts while welding. Runs on 115/230V.




Thanks, that is interesting. The stock configuration uses double V-belts, but like I was saying, think I might end up switching over to a serpentine setup. Helpful to know what the limitations of each are in any case though. Thanks again for posting.
If you are doing a battery bank/inverter just run it off the inverter. A 6v golf cart battery setup with it wired up to 24V being charged by a 24v alternator on demand would be boss. Solar when parked during day, fire up the truck and high idle for welding.
 

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87manche got all that right no need for a clutch, no load on the alternator no load on the belt (not much anyhow still need to spin all the windings)
 

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Discussion Starter #771
If you are doing a battery bank/inverter just run it off the inverter. A 6v golf cart battery setup with it wired up to 24V being charged by a 24v alternator on demand would be boss. Solar when parked during day, fire up the truck and high idle for welding.
Well, I'm doing a 12V battery bank and 110 inverter that's only 3000 watts. Would need a second battery bank and inverter for the 24V to 220. Then I'd be thinking that I'd kinda want to keep the 24V electrical system separate from any accessories. So what, three alternators? Haha, this could get outta hand pretty quickly.
 

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I think your over thinking the whole problem just run a stand alone generator when using the welder.
 

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regarding your wattage.

figure a 3kW inverter is not 100% efficient. Amps is watts/voltage

so 3000/120=25

but, like we said before, voltage is what pushes amps. The less voltage you have the more amps you need. Voltage is like water pressure. Amps is water flow.

so, [email protected] 12 volts is
3000/12=250 A
then add 10-15% because your inverters rated wattage is before any efficiency losses.

so at peak output your inverter is probably going to pull nearly 300A.

Now, if you're not planning on pulling peak wattage all the time, you don't need an alt that's capable of powering all the load. The battery bank will step in and make up the difference.

So, size your wiring according to 300A loads, and figure that when you're battery shopping.
Plan on being at a net deficit when you're pulling peak wattage, and then the alternator will recover the batteries during your down time.
 

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Discussion Starter #774
I think your over thinking the whole problem just run a stand alone generator when using the welder.
Space is a major concern. A big generator is... big. Had picked up a 6000 watt honda unit but decidsd that I didn't want to have to make room for it. Sold it. If I can eliminate the motor and repackage the rest of the components individually, can make a lot better use of space.
regarding your wattage.

figure a 3kW inverter is not 100% efficient. Amps is watts/voltage

so 3000/120=25

but, like we said before, voltage is what pushes amps. The less voltage you have the more amps you need. Voltage is like water pressure. Amps is water flow.

so, [email protected] 12 volts is
3000/12=250 A
then add 10-15% because your inverters rated wattage is before any efficiency losses.

so at peak output your inverter is probably going to pull nearly 300A.

Now, if you're not planning on pulling peak wattage all the time, you don't need an alt that's capable of powering all the load. The battery bank will step in and make up the difference.

So, size your wiring according to 300A loads, and figure that when you're battery shopping.
Plan on being at a net deficit when you're pulling peak wattage, and then the alternator will recover the batteries during your down time.
That makes perfect sense, thanks.
 

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I can't remember if you are using a PTO winch or not but if not, you could use a generator head attached to the PTO. It could all be mounted under the rig, or tucked up in a corner somewhere. I'd still go with a nice high amp alternator but the generator could be an option for welding and similar high draw stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #776
I can't remember if you are using a PTO winch or not but if not, you could use a generator head attached to the PTO. It could all be mounted under the rig, or tucked up in a corner somewhere. I'd still go with a nice high amp alternator but the generator could be an option for welding and similar high draw stuff.
Both winches are going to be hydro-powered, using a transfercase PTO to power a hydraulic pump. Was thinking that I could use a rear-facing PTO on the transmission to power a generator, but when I saw the output of some of those engine-mounted units, got me thinking that I might not need to go to the trouble. Space between the framerails, and everywhere under the chassis, is at a premium. So if I don't have to mount a generator down there, can put something else there instead.
 

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Also keep in mind that most of the PTO generator units in the military are actually mounted in the body and a chain driven from underneath. Might still not be much of an option but it's something to think about. With your power demands your options are sort of limited and there is only so much real estate under the truck and on the front of the engine. It can be done, but there may be compromises.
 

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Unless you are dead set on a built in gen set, a little Honda will do anything a PTO unit can do, and do it better. If you need more than 2KW you can double them up for a 4KW or get one of the big ones for 5.5-6.5KW. Then you don't have the vibration that comes from the engine. That won't get you the 10.5KW that a PTO unit can be, but you don't have to put up with the downfalls of a built in unit. The biggest one would be having to run the main engine just for electricity, especially after you want to go to sleep.

Take it from someone who has a built in gen-set in a toy hauler. The drone gets old very quickly. I keep a little 1KW unit just to run the T.V. and the battery charger. Drag it 50-60 ft off, run a good extension cord and have mostly peace and quiet so I can still hear nature and the T.V. without having to run a surround sound setup, or head phones just to hear over the damn gen set.
 

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found the leece neville guy in the same box it came home with me.

It's all there. I'll grab some packaging stuff from work and get it packed up and shipped out.

some assembly required. it's still in the same state it was in the picture.
 

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Discussion Starter #780 (Edited)
Also keep in mind that most of the PTO generator units in the military are actually mounted in the body and a chain driven from underneath. Might still not be much of an option but it's something to think about. With your power demands your options are sort of limited and there is only so much real estate under the truck and on the front of the engine. It can be done, but there may be compromises.
It's not so much a matter of how to drive it, but where to put it and would rather be able to use that space between the framerails for other things. Putting the generator inside is just not feasible, for a number of reasons.

Unless you are dead set on a built in gen set, a little Honda will do anything a PTO unit can do, and do it better. If you need more than 2KW you can double them up for a 4KW or get one of the big ones for 5.5-6.5KW. Then you don't have the vibration that comes from the engine. That won't get you the 10.5KW that a PTO unit can be, but you don't have to put up with the downfalls of a built in unit. The biggest one would be having to run the main engine just for electricity, especially after you want to go to sleep.

Take it from someone who has a built in gen-set in a toy hauler. The drone gets old very quickly. I keep a little 1KW unit just to run the T.V. and the battery charger. Drag it 50-60 ft off, run a good extension cord and have mostly peace and quiet so I can still hear nature and the T.V. without having to run a surround sound setup, or head phones just to hear over the damn gen set.
I will have something like a little Honda EU2000 to power all the low-draw day-to-day stuff. Solar too, eventually. So don't expect to need to run the big generator much at all, hardly ever, except when I'm working with some of the tools that I'll be hauling around in my trailer. Then I won't be terribly concerned about the drone of a generator, or that big 'ol multifuel engine. No big deal. Fuel consumption is somewhat of a concern, but space is an even bigger limitation. Had a Honda EB6500 that I was planning on putting in the trailer, but it was just too damn big. Trailer is only 10ft long and I have to make room for all my tools and toys and four big dogs. There's just no way, and I didn't want to put it on the tongue of the trailer, because I want to turn that into a nice patio deck.

found the leece neville guy in the same box it came home with me.

It's all there. I'll grab some packaging stuff from work and get it packed up and shipped out.

some assembly required. it's still in the same state it was in the picture.
Awesome. Thanks a ton!
 
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