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Discussion Starter #241
Tearing down this refrigerator was part of today's tasks. I picked it up for free a while back so that I could get it and use the plumbing and electrical to build one for the bus. A 24-volt Danfoss compressor is a couple Benjamin's. A 24-volt RV fridge runs a few grand. Yet another project, but one I want to take on to fit our build and save us a load of money we could use for the rest of the build.

Despite being ASE certified on automotive air conditioning systems at one time, ac systems have never been of much interest to me and therefore not included in my years of work. I've fixed a number of refrigeration units, but only because I recognized what it needed. This project is something I'll need assistance with.

As it stands, this fridge is 13+ cubic feet and 120-volt AC. It worked great. The doors were bent, which was the reason it was free. We want a full-size unit, so I'm basing the build off of this one. I need to figure out how to determine what compressor displacement, freon volume and type, oil volume and type, and what fittings to add on for charging. I haven't turned up much on the internet and haven't gotten any help from any friends in refrigeration so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #242
I think you'll end up with a bevy of solutions.

get the radiators and fans as well sorted as you can, but probably have to do meth or spray water to keep the engine cool for those 5 minutes of hill climbing.
I think so too. And spray will be easy. The hydronic floor will contain roughly 20 gallons as well which I'll set up to be an emergency coolant reserve with a solenoid valve and smallish flow so as not to crack the heads or black.
 

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With no knowledge on the subject I must ask why not suck cooling air from under the bus, other than the chance of road debris getting into your radiators?
 

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dataplate will give you refrigerant type and volume
compressor will be rated in amperage and refrigerant type (oil type) Likely either R134a (ester (POE) or PAG oils, with ester being more common in small appliances) or R12 with mineral oil. Might be R22 with mineral oil, but pretty darn unlikely.
You can use propane pretty much indescriminately, or r134 from a can tap if you've got the oil for it.
charging fittings are standard 1/4" SAE flare with a schraeder valve in them, no refrigerator comes with service ports you need to add them.
With no knowledge on the subject I must ask why not suck cooling air from under the bus, other than the chance of road debris getting into your radiators?
under is low pressure, almost as much as the rear

also there is the ground there with a foot of clearance if that, so straight flow to the center of the core is kind of obstructed by the ground, around the edges would be okay
 

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Discussion Starter #245
With no knowledge on the subject I must ask why not suck cooling air from under the bus, other than the chance of road debris getting into your radiators?
That's part of my plan. I haven't mentioned the wind tunnel yet because of the amount of details. Basic description is that there's fresh air intake holes on the nose of the bus that supply air in some part of the driver's air and passenger's air and the tunnel it passes through is in the cold air return where all our conduits are going. I could build a couple doors that allow lots of air flow to enter the front, cool as it passes through the tunnel, and blow directly at the engine. Creating scoops that utilize the negative pressure at the rear corners of the bus would help draw cool air through the tunnel. I'll get some pics of that up soon
 

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Discussion Starter #247
Today's score at the Colorado Springs U-Pull-n-Pay half off run. Got all eight seat rails off some Mitsubishi Eclipses and Eagle Talons. The track profiles are an inch thick and run on ball bearings. Release on one side with cable crossover. $51.xx for all.

I'll trim these down to the bare necessities and mock them up in the wheel tubs. Once measured, I'll jug them up on my welding table for alignment and make some sweet battery racks.
 

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Discussion Starter #248
The image may be a little confusing. I have the bed frame/engine bay hatch drawn out, for the most part. Hinge pivot placement and hinge arc shape have been determined. The frame lifts away from the floor frame without binding and tilts a full 90 degrees to set the mattress edge on the floor. It all clears the current floor plan.

Picked up all but the last two pieces of tubing needed to complete the floor frame this morning. Also stared at all the drop pieces the steel supplier has and got to thinking about a leveling jack/lift jack/jack stand combo idea since we'll at some point need leveling jacks and I'm in dire need of more bottle jacks to lift the bus and need to build some serious stands to support it and prevent my death by bus weight.
 

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Also stared at all the drop pieces the steel supplier
My house mate and I were building a TF drag bike in the late 80s the only time we had off together was Saturday morning which we spent down at the metal salvage yard hunting for material we could use at our price
 

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Discussion Starter #250
dataplate will give you refrigerant type and volume
compressor will be rated in amperage and refrigerant type (oil type) Likely either R134a (ester (POE) or PAG oils, with ester being more common in small appliances) or R12 with mineral oil. Might be R22 with mineral oil, but pretty darn unlikely.
You can use propane pretty much indescriminately, or r134 from a can tap if you've got the oil for it.
charging fittings are standard 1/4" SAE flare with a schraeder valve in them, no refrigerator comes with service ports you need to add them.
Spotted the data plate as I was tearing it down. It runs R134a and I would guess a PAG oil, but I'm not sure which. Last time I had to add oil to the ac on a car, I had to ask which grade I needed when I walked in and saw that there were four or five different PAG oils to choose from. I didn't see a volume statement unless it's the 10.2 LRA.

I've never seen service ports on household refrigerators, so I figured I'd have to research what fittings I would need in order to fill it with whatever tank is typically used. If I'm not mistaken, autos use a 1/4" SAE flare for one side. Can't remember if it's high or low. I'd have to go look at one of our vehicles.
 

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Spotted the data plate as I was tearing it down. It runs R134a and I would guess a PAG oil, but I'm not sure which. Last time I had to add oil to the ac on a car, I had to ask which grade I needed when I walked in and saw that there were four or five different PAG oils to choose from. I didn't see a volume statement unless it's the 10.2 LRA.

I've never seen service ports on household refrigerators, so I figured I'd have to research what fittings I would need in order to fill it with whatever tank is typically used. If I'm not mistaken, autos use a 1/4" SAE flare for one side. Can't remember if it's high or low. I'd have to go look at one of our vehicles.
all grades are more or less interchangeable if you're a hack, I just use the pag 46 for everything because I'm a horrible person

"locked rotor amps"

1/4 flare on cars was R12 for all ports now they use quick couplers with 134, and a 1/2" acme thread on the refrigerant bottles
 

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Discussion Starter #252
all grades are more or less interchangeable if you're a hack, I just use the pag 46 for everything because I'm a horrible person

"locked rotor amps"

1/4 flare on cars was R12 for all ports now they use quick couplers with 134, and a 1/2" acme thread on the refrigerant bottles
If I can set it up to just take some PAG and a can of the R134 of the auto parts store shelf, that'd be coo. I have to find copper or brass fittings to braze onto 1/4" copper line. Shouldn't be difficult. Just a bit of research to get the right sizes.

I don't mind playing around with oil weights. The compressor is pretty cheap compared to our other options and I'd like to tinker with some AC since it's been a while. If the rotor locks, the rotor locks. I can have another compressor in within a week. Maybe I can make it quick-disconnect if the fittings are reliable.
 

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If I can set it up to just take some PAG and a can of the R134 of the auto parts store shelf, that'd be coo. I have to find copper or brass fittings to braze onto 1/4" copper line. Shouldn't be difficult. Just a bit of research to get the right sizes.

I don't mind playing around with oil weights. The compressor is pretty cheap compared to our other options and I'd like to tinker with some AC since it's been a while. If the rotor locks, the rotor locks. I can have another compressor in within a week. Maybe I can make it quick-disconnect if the fittings are reliable.
most smaller stuff is just bent with a brake line bender, and then to connect you put one end in your flaring block and hammer a swaging tool in it to expand it like exhaust pipe so it slips together, then use copper-phosphorus brazing rod to stick it together
you should backpurge while brazing so you don't get flaky copper oxide in your capillary tube, I use propane to purge the lines, just light the vented end so you don't get blowed up.

the locked rotor amps thing is an electrical power draw thing
 

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Discussion Starter #254
most smaller stuff is just bent with a brake line bender, and then to connect you put one end in your flaring block and hammer a swaging tool in it to expand it like exhaust pipe so it slips together, then use copper-phosphorus brazing rod to stick it together
you should backpurge while brazing so you don't get flaky copper oxide in your capillary tube, I use propane to purge the lines, just light the vented end so you don't get blowed up.

the locked rotor amps thing is an electrical power draw thing
Can do. Could use a source for fittings. I'll browse McMaster Carr.

Thought you were referring to a seized motor that doesn't drop starting amps. Used to check for that all the time on fuel tank sump motors.
 

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Discussion Starter #256
I know u r in the middle of nowhere but any hvac supply house will have the fittings on the shelf.
That is, if there's an hvac supply around. I'll be checking with Ferguson and Hussman plumbing tomorrow morning. There're pretty much the only places likely to have anything. If nothing, I'll find some at a supplier in Albuquerque or up north on my next trip for materials. I have to call Menard's in Cheyenne in the morning to see if Southwire has shipped our flex conduit yet. Seems that Southwire is blowing smoke about it since they're almost a week behind the arrival date they promised. If that hasn't shipped, I'm cancelling the order and heading to Albuquerque.
 

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Discussion Starter #257 (Edited)
On the leveling jack idea, I've been piecing a few things together in my head. The 20-ton bottle jacks do well to lift one end of the bus. I don't think I would want to use any lesser capacity, so to find some 20-ton cylinders with a reasonable stroke would work. Specifically those with cup seals. I need a foot pivot. A 2-5/16" gooseneck ball with a 20-25k pound capacity sounds good. I just need to come up with a receiver of sorts to retain it. And lastly, a telescoping tube assembly that can latch with a ratchet or something.

RV leveling jack systems seem to be out of the question. Since a coach bus is considerably heavier than your typical RV, the available systems look be too wienie to be comfortably stable. I'd like to mount the jack on the axles so that they could double as maintenance jacks for pulling tires off and such. On-board tooling comes in handy all the time.

Not that I'm trying to outdo a system like the Big Foot Class A setup. It's just a great feeling to save a few grand and make something yourself that can be overkill and kill two or more birds with one stone. That and I haven't found anything showing that the leveling systems are capable of lifting the vehicle high enough to get the tires off the ground.

Since the MCI buses are of unibody construction, running the cylinders in unison to lift it is kind of a necessity. I think there's enough auto leveling controllers out there now to make all this work seamlessly. One way or another, building some serious jacks sounds the most enticing at the moment. Throw me your $0.02 if ya like.

Edit: Forgot to add that I want a pair of jacks on each of the three axles.
 

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Not sure how it works but out west but in the east ferguson bought lyon coklin, an hvac company. For me ferguson is just plumbing and lc is only hvac. I have to go to one or the other even though they r the same company. Maybe this helps, lc would have the parts on the shelf.

https://lyonconklin.fergusonhvac.com
 

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Can you dump the air enough that jacks in the axles will be able to level? Seems like frame/body mounted would be better.

Are you OK with cutting up the storage bays? There had to be room for a 20" cylinder mounted in there aiming down somewhere.

Out old rig had flip down hydro ones. They were so nice for tire changes! Ours were single acting with a spring for return and flip up.

I would not use a controller personally.... Out never worked with a crap, but it was mid 90's engineering. I just manually did it by feel.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #260
Not sure how it works but out west but in the east ferguson bought lyon coklin, an hvac company. For me ferguson is just plumbing and lc is only hvac. I have to go to one or the other even though they r the same company. Maybe this helps, lc would have the parts on the shelf.

https://lyonconklin.fergusonhvac.com
I was hoping that at least Ferguson would carry over some of the Lyon parts since we don't have an hvac supply nearby. No such luck.

Can you dump the air enough that jacks in the axles will be able to level? Seems like frame/body mounted would be better.

Are you OK with cutting up the storage bays? There had to be room for a 20" cylinder mounted in there aiming down somewhere.

Out old rig had flip down hydro ones. They were so nice for tire changes! Ours were single acting with a spring for return and flip up.

I would not use a controller personally.... Out never worked with a crap, but it was mid 90's engineering. I just manually did it by feel.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Dumping the air sets it on the bump stops. There's some steel subframe tube work over each axle for the suspension. All the bays are aluminum that won't handle the weight. Not much to mount to within the bays, either. I'd be pretty happy with manually operating the jacks. Just have to be sure not to tweak the body too far. A controller would be more than half the cost of the whole system anyway. So far, I would still rather build the jacks. Can't find much in the way of grader balls for foot pivots. Gooseneck balls are $20 each, but need a socket of some kind.
 
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