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I thought I had done it in highschool and the results were killer. Was it goldgas and I'm just not remembering right? I got an argon bottle filled for my TIG welder, hooked it up to my MIG welder for fun and it was AWFUL! Is that normal or did I not end up with argon or what?
Bottom line, can you do nice welds with a MIG and argon or do you have to have CO2 mixed?
 

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I dont think 100% argon will work for mild steel, but it is needed for stainless MIG.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah, it was mild steel i was trying to burn. Switched to 100% co2 and it was fine then.
 

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I had poor results using straight argon on stainless. CO2 worked better. I use straight argon on aluminum.
 

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i ran out of 75/25 and tried to finish the job with argon and it doesn't weld worth sh!!
 

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It can work but you need a machine that has the ability to put out 26+ volts and a weldement 1/4"+ thick before it is something you should attempt.

At best the welds would turn out as barely acceptable, you end up fighting with undercut.

The only reason I can see to attempt this is either out of curiosity or to win a bet.
 

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Welding Gases

Most of us do our MIG welding in a short circuit transfer, that is the wire actuall short circuits and then burns back. For short circuit, CO2 or C25 is needed. The CO2 actually makes it an "active" process. IE the CO2 is not just for shielding.

Once you get to 25-26+ volt range, your transfer is either going to be spray transfer or globular transfer. The only limitation to conventional spray transfer is welding out of position is difficult. Pulse spray you can weld vertical up.

ESAB Ref Library
This link has a lot of good information. Also, get a filler metals welding guide from your supplier, they are a wealth of good information.
 

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So what's better for welding in all different possitions?
I've always used C25 but a new machine is giving me lots of spatter and hot sags when upside down.
Will Co2 work better for me, certainly cheaper?
 

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JeepinDoug said:
So what's better for welding in all different possitions?
I've always used C25 but a new machine is giving me lots of spatter and hot sags when upside down.
Will Co2 work better for me, certainly cheaper?
In short circuit, either CO2 or C25 works about the same. Out of position welding, especially overhead is typically more about technique and settings than the shielding gas.
I am a welding instructor for the Navy, and I can tell you there is no substitute for practice. Last week, I had to weld a new piece on my toyhauler and it included welding vertical and overhead. I spent 3 times amount of time on practicing than I did actually welding the piece. One setting for the OH and one for the Vertical.
In my experience, C25 has worked very well for all of my needs.
 

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Do you find yourself turning up the wire speed for OH to keep the deposit from dropping or sagging. I've been keeping the settings the same and running shorter fat tacks. Seems to work but not as hot as I'd like it.
 

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JeepinDoug said:
Do you find yourself turning up the wire speed for OH to keep the deposit from dropping or sagging. I've been keeping the settings the same and running shorter fat tacks. Seems to work but not as hot as I'd like it.
Ok, a little wire feed 101. Voltage equals arc length. The longer the arc, the "hotter" the weld. Wire speed equals amperage. So, theoretically, you should decrease voltage (slightly) for out of position, and have to decrease wire speed as well. See the link.
VOLT AMP CURVE
For OH welds, travel angle, electrode stickout and CFH are critical. Keep a 5 to 10 degree push angle, a lcloser electrode stickout and increase CFH. CO2 and C25 are both heavier than air so they tend to sink.
Which welding machine are you using? What size wire? Brand of wire makes a difference too.
 

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Linc 175plus. I'm still using the 10# spool that came with the machine, Linc .030".
A closer elect stick out is never guaranteed with type of possitions we get into. I do notice that changing the push angle helps alot.
This new machine has me learning again, I start with rec'd settings and tweak as I go.
My buddy uses a Linc 2300 or something like that, the korean 220v model and his wire speed is set way higher than mine. Tap the trigger on his and you get an inch of wire, mine gets you a quarter inch.
 

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Out of position tends to be easier if you actually increase wire speed a hair while decreasing voltage a smidge. Travel speed and technique are going to make the real difference though but it's easier with the wire speed up.
 

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I know what you mean with the lack of always having the best positions. The Lincoln 175, or anyother light duty machine lack the kind of control you need to make them work great in a bunch of conditions. But, I have seen really talented guys take a 20 year old machine with almost no setting adjusments, weld circles around me with a 2005 $3900 pulse MIG machine. I guess I have to buy my talent. :flipoff2:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for all the great info.
Please tell me that C25 is 75/25 co2 argon mix so I won't be totally lost...
 

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zags said:
I had poor results using straight argon on stainless. CO2 worked better. I use straight argon on aluminum.
whoa nellie, CO2 only works as a shielding gas on certain wires. Most cored stainless wires require CO2, which is probably what you got.
 
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