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Discussion Starter #1
I found these while looking around a Fnnish site....killer offroad trails. I would like to see one of these rigs come over here to compete...I bet they would do well. I wonder if we could start an exchange! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">





From what I found they are mog chassis with jeep tubs set on top. They use all the unimog suspension and most of the drivetrain. They usually run a small v-6 or v-8 and an automatic tranny hooked up to the stock mog 6spd gearbox. This would give you tons of gearing options!!

Killer rigs....and this one was from 1999

later <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0">
 

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interesting that he saved the front fender, I did that <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
 

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Here are some more pics of Finnish Jeeps like you posted. You were right about most of them using mog chassis, this Jeep is not on MOG axles, but I am not sure exactly which axle it has.


And a few pics of other vehicles.
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All of these pics came from Rivercape Racers

Where did your pics come from?

Sean

[ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: Station ]
 

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Discussion Starter #4
That is where mine came from too!

That is a killer site! Those rigs are insane!

I am trying to find out some more details of the green jeep in the pictures I posted! It doesn't look that hard to build. I was thinking a propane 4.3 with a th350. Cheap, simple and light!

I just don't know what MOG would be the best to start with? A 404 mog isn't that expensive, though they have a 114 " wheelbase. I would like about a 105". I wonder how hard it would be to shorten the rear suspension and frame?

Any ideas?

later <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0">
 

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I know that some of the competitors use Mog 411 chassis, They are very rare though, and often expensive. They had an 80" wheelbase. Most competiters use shortened 404 frames. I think you can get the torque tubes shortened fairly easy at a good driveshaft shop. The suspension links would be really easy to shorten as well.

Here is a pic that you may have already seen, that might help.


I used to e-mail back and forth quite often with the owner of that site (and the buggy Moggster). I learned quite alot about how those buggys are built. But he went to college a few months back, and has not updated his site or e-mailed me since.

Anything else I can do to help, just ask.

Sean
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thats a bummer about the guy who owns that site going AWOL <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> I just e-mailed him.

I have a few questions that you could help me with...

-How do they connect the tranny to the mog t-case/tranny? It looks as though they are using a SBC/th350 combo most of the time. Those parts are easy to find <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

-I was doing a little measuring on the green jeepmog I posted. Unless I was way off on tire size ( 44s? ) That would put the wheelbase at 114", the same as a 404! Perfect. With some kind of 4wheel steering 114" would not be that bad at all! Even without it the mog has a turning radius of only 42'. What do you think?

-The only other thing is....how do you drive the damn thing! Is the mog transmission used as just a multi-speed t-case? Or do they use both the automatic and mog transmission. I was thinking that you could run with a transbrake/manual valvebody in the automatic. Now, my details on the transbrake are a bit fuzzy. My understanding of it is that when you press a button the tranny kicks in to a neutral setting no matter what gear you are in? Maybe you could push the button and then shift the mog transmission, they are all synco anyways.

-When I look at the inside of mogs they have like a million shifters. Do you have to have them all or what? Or the real question is where would you put them all in a small cj5 tub <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> You would have like a dozen shifters!

-Is there any twisting restrictions inside the mog suspension. I know that there frames are suppose to flex also, but other than the shocks or springs is there anything that keeps the axle from articulating? I am thinking airbags on drooping mounts with LONG travel shocks <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

-One thing I did pic up is that the 411 axles are the narrow ones. That is why they use them sooo much I guess?

thanks for the help

later <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0">
 

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Is it just me or do they not beleive in LOW air pressure for their tires??? Looking at these pics anyhow........
 

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WHOAH, Lotta questions.
I will try my best.

I am not sure how they attatch the auto trans to the Mog trans, but The Mog trans/transfer case is supposed to be one unit. I do not think that there is a way to seperate them. Jare always only mentioned that he used the T-case, and from pictures that I used to have, but lost, it looks like the automatic trans goes directly to the Mogs T-case. Maybe there is a way to seperate them(It may require lots of machining, they were very competent machinists, and made several complicated modifications in other parts of the vehicle).

I do know that Jare installed planetary gear assemblies from an np208(very custom machine work needed) because the gear ratio was way too high(fast).

You know it just occured to me who you should ask this question. Ask the guys at http://www.jbs4x4.com/ They are in Tennessee(My home state) And have done almost exactly what you want to do. They should definatly be able to help you connect your V6 to a Mog(and probably could make you the adaptors for it). Pictures below.

About having alot of Levers, It depends on the Mog. Some have knobs, and levers for every imaginable thing(hydraulic stick controls, Lockers....).

I think a 4 wheel steering full length Mog buggy would be awesome.Actualy it is funny. I started to type this in my last reply, but decided that should not tell you what I think you should do, BUT, since you asked....
I would go ahead and go with the 114" length, just remove any overhang(frame), and weld tubes all over the Mog frame making a 6-8 seater buggy(remember that the Mog sat 14 with little rear overhang)and still have enough storage for all your camping/trail/ repair gear.

In the future if you decide that the 114" wheelbase is too long you can shorten it down a bit, nothing lost.

The suspension on Mogs is pretty good. They get 30+" of articulation stock, and with different sprngs, I think this could be greatly imroved. There is not really any binding in the suspension design on Mogs(within reasonable limits, obviously). Your main limiting factor is the CV-Joints in the driveline(Like on most trail vehicles)which would take ALOT to max out.

Here are a few pics of the Mog buggy that JBs4x4 made. Almost what I would want to do.
Specs are Unimog chassis, LT1, Hydraulic steering, buggyfied.

NOTE: FOR SOME REASON I COULD NOT GET THE PICS TO LOAD HERE SO I WILL GIVE YOU THE LINK TO THE PICS. http://rockwarrior.rockcrawler.com/photo.html

Send me pics if you actually take your project into completion. I would really like to see them. Sorry I did not know much about adapting your engine to the Mog trans(hopefuly the people at the link I gave you can help you). I hope I have helped, and if you have any more questions hopefuly I can help you.

Sean

[ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: Station ]
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Station,

Thanks for the info. I did a little surfing around and found this place.
http://www.enderby.com/unimog/index.html

They have some engine swaps in mogs. They do the 300 ford I-6 and a chevy 350 swap with an auto. After looking at some of the pics on the website I am more confused! Anyways, They do have this adapter.


It loks like it bolts inbetween the stock MOG tranny/t-case and the motor bellhousing. This doesn't help much though, I would like to bolt an auto tranny in there too.

As far as the project goes...first I need to find a mog to crawl under and do some looking!

After that, I was thinking of using a jeep cj-5 body just like the pics I posted. It looks simple enough really? I would like to eliminate the flexing mog frame with a lighter tube frame and cage that would be integrated into the jeep body. I am thinking a vortec V-6 with a powerglide or TF727. With a short drivetrain like that I would hope I can fit everything in. I would really like to use the MOG tranny as a T-case! I would have like 800:1 or something!

I have a unimog brochure with a pic of a clear lexan tranny. It is really cool to look at! I can't really see a way to seperate it at all. It doesn't look that long though. I would bet that you could move the mog tranny back a bit if you needed? I wonder if the front and rear torque tubes are equal?

thanks for the help, sorry for all the questions!

later <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0">
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well I learned some more interesting info that I thought I would pass on....Just in case anyone cares! <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

-Just setting a jeep body on a mog chassis isnt really doable. The main problem is that the entire motor and tranny are too far forward. If you look at a unimog frame the large sag in the frame needs to be right under the driver in a jeep. The easiest thing would be to move the front axle forward and bring the rear axle up.

-The motor in a unimog is offset about 6-8" too the pass side. This makes it harder to fit a v-6 v-8 motor in because the motor would sit right next to the framerail. Stock UNIMOGs have inline motors 6cyl motors. It can be done though. Its just tight. With a custom frame you could make a little room also.

-Adapting an automatic tranny to the mog tranny/t-case ( its all one unit ) isn't really that hard. You have to machine and spline the stock mog input shaft, then machine your automatics output shaft, make a coupler. Make an adapter out of some plate and round stock. Presto, you have about a bazillion to one gearing.

-It is easy to make torque tube shorter or longer. You just start with a rear 404 tube and cut it to what you want. They are LONG. The driveshaft in the tube needs to be cut also....Jesse? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Then all you have to do is relocate the panhard rod, and remake the torque tube braces. I hear that the mog suspension is one of the most efficent at putting power to the ground.

-Mogs are high pinion and portal. You end up not having driveline angle problems. Plus the large balljoint where the torque tube connects to the tranny/t-case has unlimited rotation. You could spin the front axle around in circles if the motor and frame didn't get in the way. The only limit is the overall droop of the suspension. It will bind like a u-joint eventually. I don't think it will be a factor though.

-Mogs have cable lockers front and back stock

-You can flip a mog front end around and run it in the back with out any mods for rear steering I think.

-The entire thing isn't really as complicated as I thought at first. It is really a simple system that could be integrated into a buggy with relative ease. Though you are running MOG stuff, so have some spare parts lined up just in case you need them.

-The key to building a mog buggy is mounting the Mog tranny in, and then mating the motor up to it. Everything in the Mog revolves around the tranny.

later <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0">
 

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Hi Mieser, I sell Unimog axles, if you need any disc brake conversions or anything let me know.
I also have a Mog tranny transfer case here that I want to get rid of, 100US and you can have it. I believe that the first gear in the Mog tranny is 13to1 if I remember correctly.
I am a business associate with a fellow who has about 300 404 Unimogs right now. I believe he is asking about 6000US for them and they are in awsome shape.
If you want to make a buggy it may be easier to just run a domestic drivetrain with a Klune V and purchase some Mog axles with the tourque tubes eliminated. The stock U Joints on the Mogs bind pretty fast, when I got all my axles I got the driveshafts and everything and every yoke was either hit with the grinder or rubbing inside the tubes.
Email me at [email protected] if you want more info.
Don.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Taradon,

I just e-mailed you, thanks for the help.

I really want to use the mog tranny and torque tubes. Most all of the rigs in finland use the tubes and have tons o flex. I know there is hope yet <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

thanks again

later <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0">
 
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