[NECKSTER]

(Thanx to fullsize for the topic)

Basically, in your experiences, what motor will swap into where using what parts? :flipoff2: In other words, if someone is unhappy with their current power, would you recommend a big block? Is there certain years that one will bolt in easier than others? What about trannies? Motor mounts? Or, what if someone wanted to put a magnum motor in their mid 70's truck? Is there any tips or tricks you might have? Or the ever-so-popular 318 to 360 swap. Got any good advice; let's hear it!

 

[MissBigTires]

My dad squeezed a 440 into his 97 Ram! But if you want headers for it, you'll need to have them custom made.

Speaking of headers, you can make 1994+ headers fit into the 80's truck with just a little heat and a hammer, they're pretty close to being the same. I put a 97 Magnum into my 87 with very little trouble, but it's carburated.

 

[GRMhick]

To add to all the basic stuff....

There are 3 trans setups in the dodge trucks, Small block, Big block, and slant 6. These trucks used either a 727 auto, or a NP435 4 speed in the 4wd's, and also the a-833 in 2wd (maybe 4wd too?). The big block swap requires a rear sump oil pan and pick-up to clear the crossmember, and also truck motor mounts. If a 4 speed is used, the bellhousing needs to be replaced, and depending on the engine, the flywheel, and pressure plate also. Also from what i have noticed, there are 2 radiators that came in these trucks, i have both kinds with relitavally stock 360's and they both cool just fine. If you want an electric fan, a fan out of a 3.8l ford tuarus works quite well, just watch out because the amp draw from the fan makes it a bear to start your truck.

One thing i would like ot know though, is if the header flanges for lets say hedman headers are in the same spot for small blocks and big blocks...


BTW, all this info is just my obsverations, and is not necessarally correct :flipoff2:

Garrett

 

[FULLSIZE]

i would think the collectors would be close enough to be able to move your pipes to make them line up. the collectors location is usually fit to the chassis they go in. i could be wrong cause i havent had that come up yet but it makes sense to me.

when swapping from a small block to a big block, the wiring harness for the ignition has to be lengthened, so if you can grab that wiring when your grabbin the motor you'll have a factory setup instead of some crimp connectors on their. that should go for brackets and linkages also, grab everything you can.

thats all my pea brain can come up with right now. anyone have any motor swap questions we can work on?

 

[GRMhick]

when swapping from a small block to a big block, the wiring harness for the ignition has to be lengthened, so if you can grab that wiring when your grabbin the motor you'll have a factory setup instead of some crimp connectors on their. that should go for brackets and linkages also, grab everything you can.

Been there done that. Not worth the time and money to do it that way. Just buy a new harness from mopar performance...

Garrett

 

[440-fide Ramcharger]

The big block bellhousing for the NP435 4-speed is hard to come by, or so I have been told. I got mine with my PW. I believe the application was the wide block 318 from the early 60's. So if you have a 4-speed and want to swap in a big block and keep the 4-speed, this may be an issue.

And like Garrett's disclaimer, I believe this is true, but if not, sorry. :flipoff2:

 

[GRMhick]

You are right on the high bellhousing prices... this one on ebay is currently at $160... damn much for a used ballhousing... but then, you can get a new one for alittle over $300.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33730&item=2404736734&rd=1

Garrett

 

[wylec]

Other then the full race headers, does anyone make a set( for BB truck) with bigger primary's then my Hedman's which are 1 5/8's?
We just made a set that we think were out of a 'Cuda just so I could have 1 7/8's primarys and 3 1/2" collecters

 

[talldodge86]

Has anyone swapped a 383 into an 86' W150, if so will i need an adapter to bolt a TF727 or will it bolt right up

 

[GRMhick]

You need a big block 727 case... or you could get the adapter, but it costs about $400...

Garrett

 

[talldodge86]

you seriously need an adapter, did any trucks come with a 383 and 727

 

[GRMhick]

yup, you need either an adapter or a big block case. Trucks never came with 383's in the later years (a 72-78 transmission is the easiest to adapt).. but they did come with 400's and 440's whitch both have the same bolt pattern as a 383.

Currently i am planning my frame up, and I decided it isnt economically feasable to put in my 413. By the time i would be in for a big block trans, the mounts, new oil pump pickup, new oil pan, etc etc etc.. I might as well just take my 360 and makeit a 408.. of course I am not doing that.. and just doing a basic rebuild. the 413 will go in some day, but not this year, and not next.. too many parts.

BTW, it would also prob be cheaper to find a rusted out hulk of a dodge with a big block/727 combo... most can be scored for under $500 not running, and they will be by far the easiest way to get all the parts you need at once.

Garrett

 

[chuckhines]

As for the newer Ram pickups, a swap doen't need to be as hard as switching to a completely different engine. You can take a 5.9L 360, and install a 408 stroker kit. This will work with your stock computer and fuel injection systems (although I'd upgrade injectors and computer software), all of the external accessories will work as they did before, and best of all no changes to mounts or sensor locations. The basic 408 stroker is good for around 425hp, and if you added a supercharger to that, you are talking at least 100hp more. I'm thinking of doing this to my Ram. Speed Tweaks offers a kit for the 360, and I believe they have one for the 318 too. Check it out at www.speedtweaks.net

 

[GRMhick]

As for the newer Ram pickups, a swap doen't need to be as hard as switching to a completely different engine. You can take a 5.9L 360, and install a 408 stroker kit. This will work with your stock computer and fuel injection systems (although I'd upgrade injectors and computer software), all of the external accessories will work as they did before, and best of all no changes to mounts or sensor locations. The basic 408 stroker is good for around 425hp, and if you added a supercharger to that, you are talking at least 100hp more. I'm thinking of doing this to my Ram. Speed Tweaks offers a kit for the 360, and I believe they have one for the 318 too. Check it out at www.speedtweaks.net

Speed tweaks closed down so that link may not help out too much.

Garrett

 

[txs]

Through 1971 trucks did indeed come with 383s and 727. It wasn't until about 83 or 84 that you could get anything besides a 727 in an automatic dodge pickuptruck.

 

[rEdNEcKwHeE1eR]

I know this old guy who put a cad 472/TH400 in an old Dodge like a 59 and he said all he had to do was change the throtle linkage a little and bend apart the motor mounts a tiny bit:flipoff2:

 

[FULLSIZE]

I know this old guy who put a cad 472/TH400 in an old Dodge like a 59 and he said all he had to do was change the throtle linkage a little and bend apart the motor mounts a tiny bit:flipoff2:

:question:

um, what should i say? i fell sorry for him?

:beer:

 

[steved]

440 into 86 RC

A BB can be swapped into a newer vehicle using a 727 and the existing t-case. I reused the tcase from my 86 RC (fixed yoke NP208) with a BB727. There were also SB 727 cases with NP241s attached. The catch is, you need to have the SB guts and tailshaft swapped into your BB case. My BB727 was out of a New Yorker.

You definately need:

a rear sump pan

a small power brake booster (or crush your valve covers) from an older dodge truck or van...also, see that 70s van over there in the JY?? Check it out, it might have your next BB!

BB motor mounts (after market or a whole crossmember)

shorty headers, truck manifolds, or cut and reweld the car manifolds

A BB auto trans case or BB truck bellhousing, while your there, get the BB auto kickdown linkage...this is a three piece design found on many vans...the solid one piece won't work. Or by a cable.

I reused my 318 radiator (never overheated) and computer (for a while)

Depending on year of BB, you can get either left or right side water pump inlet...later years bolt up to the later radiators. That's the reason my 76 440 worked with my 86 radiator. You will need to trim the fan shroud and elongate the radiator mounting holes to slide the rad up (or down?) to get more clearance...I ran the BB fan which is BIG!

Also if you find a BB with electronic ignition, you can literally hook it up to the factory SB computer...to get started anyhow...I changed over to the older "orange box" type ignition later. This is an easy conversion too.

The earlier BBs were the "better" ones having forged cranks, since a cast crank can only handle 400 horse! I ran approximately 375 HP through my 440 and it was still very driveable. Cast cranks can be distinguished by the damper...forged cranks are internally balanced and have a thin damper...casts are externally balanced and have a big fat nasty looking damper which also spin on itself easy if you run them hard...so expect to replace it.

The stock BB thermoquad carb is very good to start with, capable of over 1,000 cfm in stock form...more if touched by someone who can build them. Rebuild the carb if it has sat...use plastic or brass floats. These are spread bores...I got 17 mpg with my 3.23s and my RC.

One thing to watch for, DC did offer a 904 auto behind the S6, SB, and (I believe) maybe some of the later 70s detuned car BBs? The 904 is a weakling brother of the 727...you will smoke these very quickly with any HP. Make sure what your buying.

I built a BB and swapped for a SB...if I was to do such a thing again, I would build the SB for the same money and less downtime. It was my Daily Driver...so time was crutial...it was down 2 weeks for surprise parts. Make sure just freshening up your SB won't do...but still, nothing beats the raw power of a BB.

steved

 

[BigFrank]

I did a motor swap in my 87 Dakota. The motor is a 400 i used a 727 to a 203 to a ford 205. fits good a little tight on the steering shaft. i have not moved it yet. trans and transfer cases fits good. just running stock manifolds. they are a little tight. i stuck with the stock motor mounts cause i had them. had to run the dakota power steering pump. fabed the mount for it.

here are some bad pics.dont mind the others and there is a 60 in the front now.



http://www.island4x4.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=projects;action=display;num=1018823545



Sean posting in bigfranks name.

 

[freak007]

The big block bellhousing for the NP435 4-speed is hard to come by, or so I have been told. I got mine with my PW. I believe the application was the wide block 318 from the early 60's. So if you have a 4-speed and want to swap in a big block and keep the 4-speed, this may be an issue.

And like Garrett's disclaimer, I believe this is true, but if not, sorry. :flipoff2:

sombody clarify this for me...I have an old polyblock 318...with this bellhousing work in my 78 440/4spd 4x4(a work in progress) if not...anyone have a bellhousing?