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Discussion Starter · #1 ·


The whole album is at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1145125&a=13791482&f=0

The new girlfriend and dog were in the rig when we went over, both are fine. I harness the dog properly. The GF just asked for help getting out of her seatbelt, she was hanging pretty helpless, but still calm and collected. <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">
We unhooked the dog and she took a big dump right near the rig, her <IMG SRC="smilies/flipoff.gif" border="0"> to me I think.

Damage is the glass, windshiled frame, door surrounds (both - cage shifted), cage needs to be straightened at a chassis shop, and the sheetmetal in the corner panel and rear wheel area is kind of boogered. Windshield frame are way too much $$, I'm going to try to get a body shop to get it to seal right, appearance is pretty meaningless at this point, it just needs to work.
 

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looks like you had a good time. One question though what kinda cage are you running? it looks like a little flop, shouldnt of caused damage to the cage <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">
 

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ground looks kinda flat to me <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It was more than a flop - we were high up on those rocks, and we almost went over on the roof. If you look at the pics you'll see that its during the recovery, its already lifted up more than a foot, we had quite a way to drop, and we began to roll onto the roof, but it settled back down. When we srarted to go over on the roof the weight of the rig was on the top corner of the stock cage by my head and the front section of the cage by the glass.
Anyway, I think the stock cage, the rear section, is fine. I'd welded a rear spreader and some for-aft spreadrers in that. The front section is the MORE cage welded and bolted in place. The top front of that it a few inches off to the right, so the door surrounds don't work, it needs to be just right to get the top and doors properly sealed. So the cage damage ain't that bad at all, its just that I need it straight for the door surrounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
"ground looks kinda flat to me "

Yeah, I was playing on those rocks in front of the rig. They kind of go in there 20 feet or so. This was the access to Rattler at Paragon. Basically I rolled at the trail head back out onto the access road. <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0">
 

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I have a dog and am thinking about taking him on the trail. How do you harness yours in? I've been thinking about how to do that.
 

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1962 YellowSubmarine
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<font color="yellow">I've never done that trail, but it appears that had you been ON the trail this wouldn't have happened <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0"></font c>
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
"I have a dog and am thinking about taking him on the trail. How do you harness yours in? I've been thinking about how to do that."

Picture this: A TJ with no rear seat, an expanded steel cargo rack *just* under the soft top (measured to height off the dog) and bolted to ears welded on addional cage tubing, and a large tool box bolted to the seat belt mounts up against the tail gate. The rack and box keep her from going out the top or back. I hang lines (rock climbing webbing) from each side of the rack meeting in the middle and hanging down, just like the shape of a Y. To the bottom of the Y, I have a caribiner hooked to a commercialy avaialble dog seat belt harness around her chest, the caribiner hooks in at her shoulder blades. I have enough slack for her to move around and lay down, but not enough to fall out the sides.
And yes, I actually did run Rattler with no further incident that day after we got the rig back upright.
 

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Originally posted by YellowSub1962:
<STRONG><font color="yellow">I've never done that trail, but it appears that had you been ON the trail this wouldn't have happened <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0"></font c></STRONG>
That's exactly what I was thinking. Just what we need, pics of us wheelin off the trail. Let's give the greenies some more ammo! <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0">
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
"Just what we need, pics of us wheelin off the trail. "
Right front tire was going up that rock with the DEAD bush on it. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Bare rocks behind that. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

"but it appears that had you been ON the trail this wouldn't have happened"

Stress APPEARS - look at the earlier posts wand see the words "rocks" and "trailhead?" It was on a freakin trail.
<IMG SRC="smilies/flipoff.gif" border="0">

[ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: Lucy's Driver ]
 

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Looking at the pther pic that you have on your site, it appears that the rock you put your tire up was NOT ON THE TRAIL! It also appears that there is some vegitation growing in front of the rock you climbed.
<IMG width=640 height=480 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/21View.jpg">
PS, it appears that both of your front tires were off the trail.

[ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: JeepinIan USA ]
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So yer giving me shite for being being on the edge of a 60 foot wide access trail on a pay for play 4x4 park? You've never put a front tire up onto a rock on the edge of a trial?
Surely you have better things to do.
 

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Where do you wheel in NJ? I go to some spots by the NY state border and sometimes down to the pine barrens but thats it. Know any spots in the northern half of the state?

[ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: chrisd ]
 

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1962 YellowSubmarine
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Originally posted by Lucy's Driver:
<STRONG>So yer giving me shite for being being on the edge of a 60 foot wide access trail on a pay for play 4x4 park? You've never put a front tire up onto a rock on the edge of a trial?
Surely you have better things to do.</STRONG>
<font color="yellow">Yes, I have put my tires on rocks on the edge of a trail - I have NOT driven off the trail
and over bushes to do so, as it appears from your pics. You're telling me you had a 60 foot wide road to be on and you still need to drive off the trail and over the bushes??

And yes we have better things to do than fight amongst ourselves and baby sit ignorant assholes. Some of us spend countless hours each and every week, educating people, forwarding and relaying information to others so that we can STOP the land closures. There are many people and organizations that are fighting for YOUR rights to access these trails, and this is the image you go around bragging about. Then you get all defensive about it when someone calls you on it. This is exactly the kind of shitty, reckless, beer drinking, tree trampling, squirrel shooting, shotgun slingin' false image we've spent years trying to undue. We don't need a few assholes (purposely or unknowingly) ruining it for the rest of the 99.9% of the responsible four wheelers...

I think you need to review the TREAD Lightly guidelines and join some organizations that are fighting for you, maybe attend some clean up runs, and do something positive with all your energy and your camera...Show the media how we are helping not hurting the trails. I would suggest spending a little time each week in the Land Use Section. Inform yourself on the issues, and see how you can help. We have a hard enough battle ahead of us trying to keep the greens in line, we don't need to be giving them any more ammo...

just one more FYI, this type of arrogant, bullshit behavior is a big part of the reason you have to "pay to play in 4x4 parks"....</font c>

<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">
 

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Originally posted by YellowSub1962:
<STRONG><font color="yellow">Yes, I have put my tires on rocks on the edge of a trail - I have NOT driven off the trail
and over bushes to do so, as it appears from your pics. You're telling me you had a 60 foot wide road to be on and you still need to drive off the trail and over the bushes??

And yes we have better things to do than fight amongst ourselves and baby sit ignorant assholes. Some of us spend countless hours each and every week, educating people, forwarding and relaying information to others so that we can STOP the land closures. There are many people and organizations that are fighting for YOUR rights to access these trails, and this is the image you go around bragging about. Then you get all defensive about it when someone calls you on it. This is exactly the kind of shitty, reckless, beer drinking, tree trampling, squirrel shooting, shotgun slingin' false image we've spent years trying to undue. We don't need a few assholes (purposely or unknowingly) ruining it for the rest of the 99.9% of the responsible four wheelers...

I think you need to review the TREAD Lightly guidelines and join some organizations that are fighting for you, maybe attend some clean up runs, and do something positive with all your energy and your camera...Show the media how we are helping not hurting the trails. I would suggest spending a little time each week in the Land Use Section. Inform yourself on the issues, and see how you can help. We have a hard enough battle ahead of us trying to keep the greens in line, we don't need to be giving them any more ammo...

just one more FYI, this type of arrogant, bullshit behavior is a big part of the reason you have to "pay to play in 4x4 parks"....</font c>

<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
very well said, without being rude.... i will counter with, and not in his defense... the place he was at builds and cuts trails all the time, it is private property open to people who pay to be there... that doesnt make it ok for him to run off the trails that they have built.........

as for that is why there are payed parks... well, maybe to a point but here in pa we have never ever had the kind of public land usage, and it seems its never gonna happen... most if not all our local wheeling trips are on private property.... its just the way it is out here....

i personally work trying to find new places, and clear them with the owners...

currently we have been runnin a local place that i have got in touch with the state police over, we work together there now, and report the abandoned vehicles to them... and this commin summer we are gonna help them remove all these autos and large pieces of junk...


i and others have gotten approved to use some state land, but its friggin dirt roads, they wont let us use the ole loggin roads that would be a blast....


maybe you west coasters could give us a few hints of how to aquire land, that the state keeps us from.....
 

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1962 YellowSubmarine
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Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG>very well said, without being rude.... </STRONG>
<font color="yellow">Thanks, I try, but stuff like this pisses me off to no end. There are thousands of people and organizations fighting for access, and then shit like this happens...</font c>


Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG> the place he was at builds and cuts trails all the time, it is private property open to people who pay to be there... that doesnt make it ok for him to run off the trails that they have built.........
</STRONG>

<font color="yellow">Private property, changes this to a certain extent, but still does not make it ok in my opinion. The reason is that if people can go in a voluntarily destroy (even in mild terms) someone elses property that they pay to use, what are they going to do when the use the public's land that they don't have to pay for? - just blaze a new trail because thats what they would do at "home"...

now if the owner said, "start driving over these bushes and rocks, I want to widen the trail" then this whole conversation is void.

as for pay areas, the ones we have out here (that I'm aware of) are all state run, either by the USFS,BLM or both. There is a policy that all areas are closed for "cross country and off trail travel" unless posted open. Meaning that you stay on the trails, unless an area says "open". An example would be a natural drainage area, such as a large sand wash, that changes everytime it rains. you can do whatever you want, because there are not threats to erosion and things like that. You will be cited for traveling "off trail". </font c>


Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG>
as for that is why there are payed parks... well, maybe to a point but here in pa we have never ever had the kind of public land usage, and it seems its never gonna happen... most if not all our local wheeling trips are on private property.... its just the way it is out here....

i personally work trying to find new places, and clear them with the owners...

currently we have been runnin a local place that i have got in touch with the state police over, we work together there now, and report the abandoned vehicles to them... and this commin summer we are gonna help them remove all these autos and large pieces of junk...
</STRONG>
<font color="yellow">Your off in the right direction, good job. This is the type of image and the cooperation that we need to convey to the public to get rid of the "drunken *******" image I described above. Unfortunately, it's going to take everyone of us and our respective organizations, clubs, and groups working together and policing ourselves and promoting the good stuff to get this image reversed. We get one bad image out there, and it "reaffirms the bad image" in the mind of all the misled people that are writing checks to the sierra club and the cbd and all the other anit-access groups closing our lands. Just think of it as everytime someone doesn't TREAD Lightly!, it's like writing a check to the sierra club...</font c>


Originally posted by badassjeepguy:
<STRONG> i and others have gotten approved to use some state land, but its friggin dirt roads, they wont let us use the ole loggin roads that would be a blast....


maybe you west coasters could give us a few hints of how to aquire land, that the state keeps us from.....</STRONG>

<font color="yellow">As I mentioned above this is a step in the right direction. I can suggest a few things, some may already be done.

1. some type of state wide 4wheel drive organization. If this seems to big right now, how bout contacting all the 4WD clubs in your state and having them join Blue Ribbon Coalition and United Four Wheel Drive Association. Then work closely with each other to outline plans and goals, and ways to work with your local agencies (like your currently doing, only on a larger scale) to allow access to public lands.

2. Get to know your representatives. Call your Congress persons and tell them what you think, and suggest way of doing things (this is where #1 becomes important). If you bring to them well thought out suggestions and plans, backed by thousands of people state wide, they should start listening.

3. Invite everyone “important” on trail rides, set-up “media” trail rides. Invite representatives from all your local media outlets (TV, Radio,Newspaper, etc) to go on a trail ride. Promote the “family type” trails, not the gnarly rollover hardcore trails. The fire roads you mentioned above would be perfect. Show them we air down our tire, use low gears, lockers and other equipment to minimize our impact on the environment. Pick a scenic place to set up for lunch, provide them with some sort of meal. This will give everyone a chance to interact with all the other “journalists” and to ensure that no one gets bored from sitting in the trucks all day. Maybe even switch passengers around to give the a chance to experience a trail ride in a different vehicle. Just remember that anything you say and do will have a direct impact on the “journalist’s” perspective of “us”. Don’t bash the eco-nazis all day, instead promote the reasons why your out here, to spend quality time with your family, friends, etc – to get away from the “city” and relax in the great outdoors, as they are supposed to be enjoyed by all… Also invite them on your clean-up runs...There's no such thing as too much good press...

4. Do #3 with your Congress Persons, local and state representatives. Also invite them on your clean-ups, tell them their voting public will love them for getting dirty with the rest of us (works best if press is there)

5. Set-up fund raising events for different organizations – United Way, MDA, etc. These can be simple “car shows” or they can be trail rides, or full blown competitions. Just keep everything positive. Show the people that we care and that we can co-exist with nature without destroying it.

6. Write articles for your local paper. Just a few stories a year can make a big impact. Again, keep thing positive and don’t bash the GAGs, just promote your self and your organizations as responsible four wheelers.

7. You can petition your Congress Persons to look at certain areas to be set aside for “recreational” use.

8. One of the most important things you can do is DO NOT EXCLUDE. By this I mean, we have to work with ALL types of recreationists, - hikers, bikers, motorcyclists, horse persons, EVERYONE… these groups are out to do the same thing we are, enjoy the great outdoors. We need them on our side, as a united front, not as 500 different sub groups. (Look at our country right now, United for a common goal, for a common purpose). We are all in this together.

As a side note, always follow the TREAD Lightly! guidelines. Motorized travel always gives right of way to non-motorized travel, and mechanized travel always yields to non-mechanized travel…

This may seem like a lot, because it is. Don’t expect any changes overnight; this could (and probably will) take years. Just keep at it, don’ get too discouraged (not as easy as it sounds, thrust me) and always keep things positive.

If you haven’t already, I would encourage you to join Blue Ribbon Coalition, United Four Wheel Drive, and any of the other organizations you see fit.

I would also suggest joining California Association of Four Wheel Drive Clubs. This may seem weird for someone across the country, but I have a reason. They publish a monthly newletter for all their members. There are all types of events and trail rides in there. This will give you great ideas for stuff you can do. They put on a Media Trail Ride every year. They have several fundraising events for out side organizations, and the also do a disabled persons trail ride, for those that can’t drive, but wish to get out into the great outdoors. Also, if your like every other east coast wheeler, you aspire to one day crusie the Rubicon, CA4WDC is just one of the Many groups that is fighting to keep it open…

Also I’ll kick the “Places to get Land Use Info” post in the LU section to the top. All of the organizations I mentioned are on that page, as well as many other place to get good info….

Hope this helps, and let me know if there’s anything I can help with –
PSD</font c>

<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

[ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: YellowSub1962 ]
 

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we, our club, allready belong to united, and east coast 4wd.... they seem stagnant over here....
(time to get some more young guys in there)

we do a toys for tots ride every year, the marine reserves go with us in hummers, and press is there.


i was thinkin bout doin a poker run in the woods for make a wish foundation.


been talkin with some snowmobile guys about joinin together.


this past season we had a truck cruise, it was small and not alot of $$ made but next year i have a few ideas that will hopefully promote the sport and show the media we are a good group of family oriented people..


our meeting location has changed to a better more accessable location to help new members locate us, and potentials see us.


i and alot of the younger guys are the ones who voted for these changes, our club is becomming what it should be, it all is taking time, and some people are a little pissed (some just hate change)

i am vp this year, and next year im goin for pres.... and hopefully we can get some younger active fuys in as vp and etc...


so, guess we are pretty much on track as to what we are doin.... and i personally will just keep pluggin away at it...


i havent personally contacted any reps, and this is something i will be doin in the near future...
 
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