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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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The title says it all.
Done a lot of google and thread searching, but nothing has been found that explains how to mount the springs, angle, length of ‘fangs’ and shackles.
What angle the ‘mounting pad’ area should be, fi the spring eyes should be horizontal, or spring eye to shackle mount angle.
Etc.
If you have any information, please post it, or a link to it.
Quick drawing for example.
Thank you.

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
62 views in 7 hrs and not one person has any info?
what happened to the pirate?
 

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1979 F150 351w np435 on 37s. 1995 YJ 4Banger with 5speed on 31s. 2000 XJ 4.0 auto on 31s.
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62 views in 7 hrs and not one person has any info?
what happened to the pirate?
What happened to pirate? A bunch of dumb twats like you came by, and they can't figure out how to mount a leaf spring!!
 

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1979 F150 351w np435 on 37s. 1995 YJ 4Banger with 5speed on 31s. 2000 XJ 4.0 auto on 31s.
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What are you asking here? Which stick figure has a better chance of fucking themselves? If you want to do the "top" drawing, how are you going to mount the left side of the spring? Pull your finger out of your ass and figure it out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
dumb twats like you came by
ooooh, I remember my first beer. Thanks for the chuckle.
and they can't figure out how to mount a leaf spring!!
listen shit wad, that’s not what I asked. I can fully 100% mount a leaf, I asked a specific question. Maybe I’ll draw more pictures so douche canoes like yourself can understand, since I must have made it too hard for you.
Pull your finger out of your ass and figure it out.
honestly, I do my best work with a finger inside of an ass. Maybe if you were closer I could finger your ass? WE could totally be ass pirates together.
What the fuck is the fang?
the large front shackle or spring mount under the front bumper.
 

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1982 Jeep DJ5 LQ9 V8
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There is a lot of info available on this via the search engine of your choice. Lots of threads, write ups, and magazine articles covering this topic for both road cars and 4x4. Pros and cons of where you put your shackles, shackle length and angles, and so on. Also shape of shackle.
5 minutes of Google work.

shackle angle affect by Jeremy Nugent, on Flickr



 

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1982 Jeep DJ5 LQ9 V8
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Also I have no idea what a 'fang' is. I cant find that word used in the context of suspension anywhere. It might be some weird slang only people in your area use. I run into this with my carpentry job all the time. I work all over the lower 48 and some of the weird "technical" slang people throw around and expect you to know is crazy. Some dude on the east coast tried to tell me a wedge (like a door stop) is called a bread board. GTFO lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There is a lot of info available on this via the search engine of your choice. [/URL]
Also I have no idea what a 'fang' is…. some of the weird "technical" slang people throw around and expect you to know is crazy


Thanks for the info, yes slangs get thrown around too much in the industry that’s for sure.

I’ve done months of research, I recently got back to our great country from a yearlong deployment in Iraq. And during my down time I bought parts for my build and did a lot of research and planning.

I guess I worded my question incorrectly, which has prompted yours and the dude’s before you responses.

Throughout all of the spring mounting pictures, threads and theories ive looked over, none has really stated the mounting pad where the axle mounts needs to be at this or that angle.

For example, I currently have 8 inch hangers/fangs/spring perch in the front of my chassis, and I want to reduce that length. So, I can raise it all up, which will induce several degrees on my axle mounting pads. The Cs are off, so I can reset the caster without any issues, im just curious if there is a “this is too much of an angle and the vehicle will have bump steer, or death wobble..”

If this was a trail only rig, I wouldn’t worry, but this vehicle will spend 80% of it’s life on road, and I’d rather keep leafs under it, or I would go to a 3 link and call it a day.

Thanks again for your response, and time..

(pic for example)
3117667
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
some decent info here, although not fully complete.
 

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Thanks for the info, yes slangs get thrown around too much in the industry that’s for sure.

I’ve done months of research, I recently got back to our great country from a yearlong deployment in Iraq. And during my down time I bought parts for my build and did a lot of research and planning.

I guess I worded my question incorrectly, which has prompted yours and the dude’s before you responses.

Throughout all of the spring mounting pictures, threads and theories ive looked over, none has really stated the mounting pad where the axle mounts needs to be at this or that angle.

For example, I currently have 8 inch hangers/fangs/spring perch in the front of my chassis, and I want to reduce that length. So, I can raise it all up, which will induce several degrees on my axle mounting pads. The Cs are off, so I can reset the caster without any issues, im just curious if there is a “this is too much of an angle and the vehicle will have bump steer, or death wobble..”

If this was a trail only rig, I wouldn’t worry, but this vehicle will spend 80% of it’s life on road, and I’d rather keep leafs under it, or I would go to a 3 link and call it a day.

Thanks again for your response, and time..

(pic for example) View attachment 3117667
Looks like you found a good thread where this topic is covered. So that's good.
Your deployment explains your great and salty responses ;) Iv never served but a lot of my friends have, and Iv worked in a lot of industries like cooking and construction that share a similar dark sense of humor and language hahaha

Any ways, I'm no expert, I'm learning this stuff right along with everyone ells. Here's what makes sense to me.
As long as your shackle length and angle in relation to the spring, stays with in the specs you want for the performance you are looking for, the mounting angle of the leaf spring doesn't matter. The real geometry is only related to how the shackle and spring work together. The only thing to worry about is pinion angle. Changing the angle of the spring also changes the angle of where the axle mounts to the spring, which changes pinion angle. So you would have to cut off the stock spring perches and shock mounts on the axle, and buy a spring perch kit and some new shock mounts to weld on.

Maybe changing the angle of the spring would change ride quality a bit because the axle wouldn't be moving perfectly up and down, but a bit diagonally?...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Looks like you found a good thread where this topic is covered. So that's good.
Your deployment explains your great and salty responses .......
LoL, yessir, 5th combat deployment, not a newbie to fabrication, nor to dish out the insults when they come in.
Maybe changing the angle of the spring would change ride quality a bit because the axle wouldn't be moving perfectly up and down, but a bit diagonally?...
Exactly, that's why the original post, ive been on pirate since around 2005 and the people that use this site are amazing. The talent and knowledge is top notch, that's why i posted this topic. I was a bit surprised at the starky remark i got from the first guy, but i understand where he comes from as well. I hate the 'how do i do this crowd' or the, 'what size wheels will fit with a 2 inch lift..'
Either way, this is still a topic that i cant find an answer for...yet.

my pinion angle is pretty simple, i'll be using a CV driveshaft, and the caster will be at 6 degrees..
I'll update this as i find the information.

thanks again.
 

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What are you asking here? Which stick figure has a better chance of fucking themselves? If you want to do the "top" drawing, how are you going to mount the left side of the spring? Pull your finger out of your ass and figure it out.
This conversation’s fast becomings a confrontation
 

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You’d do well to study the mounting setup of various factory leaf spring designs. The idea is to get the springs as far outboard as possible. Too far inward and they can’t control body roll very well. Additionally, if you’re retrofitting leafs onto a vehicle not initially designed for them (and you’re not going to be talked out of it), then your best bet is going to be to mount the perches outboard of the frame. It might seem intuitive to mount them inline with the frame, but you’re courting disaster by doing that. A beam under load has the highest stress level on the underside, which is precisely where you’d be drilling/welding new spring perches. Adding weakness in these areas, either by drilling additional holes or by introducing heat-affected zones through welding, is not a great idea IMO. The sides of the frame see the least amount of transferred stress, so you’d probably (though not definitely) be okay with drilling or welding there. As to the setup, inverted shackles plus spring over axle is going to lead to a fair amount of axle wrap, so you’ll need to either account for that or deal with it. My .02.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This conversation’s fast becomings a confrontation
No sir, that was 4 days ago, there hasn't been a reply since. I understand where the gentleman is coming from. I too, hate those who don't any research on a topic and then want to be spoon fed. That is not the case here. Plus, to top it off, there really hasn't been an answer to the question, so either i have not worded it correctly, or that it really doesn't matter that much.
Both of, which I have not found an answer too.
 

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You’d do well to study the mounting setup of various factory leaf spring designs. The idea is to get the springs as far outboard as possible. Too far inward and they can’t control body roll very well. Additionally, if you’re retrofitting leafs onto a vehicle not initially designed for them (and you’re not going to be talked out of it), then your best bet is going to be to mount the perches outboard of the frame. It might seem intuitive to mount them inline with the frame, but you’re courting disaster by doing that. A beam under load has the highest stress level on the underside, which is precisely where you’d be drilling/welding new spring perches. Adding weakness in these areas, either by drilling additional holes or by introducing heat-affected zones through welding, is not a great idea IMO. The sides of the frame see the least amount of transferred stress, so you’d probably (though not definitely) be okay with drilling or welding there. As to the setup, inverted shackles plus spring over axle is going to lead to a fair amount of axle wrap, so you’ll need to either account for that or deal with it. My .02.
Go to far out and you won’t flex for beans.
 

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my pinion angle is pretty simple, I'll be using a CV driveshaft, and the caster will be at 6 degrees..
based on this, I'm assuming you're looking into doing leaf springs on the front of your rig.

Ill give my 2 cents:
Firstly, it typically helps if you state what you're building (year/make/model) and what the goal is. For example, Chevy 1500 solid front axle swap using dana 60 solid axle. Or, maybe you don't know what axle/ spring/ shock combo yet. no biggie, I only say it helps since someone may have gone down the same path in design but just hasn't posted how they did it and what angles, etc.

here's what I've come to understand as some rules of thumb:
-for solid front axle leafs, its more common to have elliptical springs as opposed to FLAT.
-if were talking leaf spring solid front axle, shackles in the back typically give better road feeling because they don't move INTO a bump. if you're using flat springs, a shackle in the front will do the same and the axle will not move into the bump.
-TYPICALLY your spring mounting might be dictated by the frame or other stuff on the truck. On some front axles it might be too much of a PITA to move perches, but its up to you at that point. As stated above, the further inward the easier it will be to flex, but it will also be more wobbly on the highway.
-if you're spring over axle you're more prone to axle hop/ axle wrap.
-if you use an off center leaf spring, and the spring pins are further towards the back of the truck (axle is not in the center of the leafs) this will help alleviate axle wrap/ hop.
-longer shackles can help with flex, but you kind of want to get appropriate shackles for the springs. long travel leafs that have a lot of flex can use longer shackles, but most factory leaf's don't gain much as far as articulation after about a 6" shackle.
- the more horizontal the front and rear eyes of the spring are, the "softer" the spring will feel. the more angled they are, it will effectively feel a little stiffer.
-I've heard as a general rule of thumb, with a shackle in compression setup (not tension shackle), under static droop the shackle should be about vertical (maybe 5degrees less?) and maybe around 10-15 degrees tilted under static resting ride height. this is also kind of dependent on the spring pack and shackle length.


it sounds like you are wanting to switch up your rig a little but get an idea of what to do instead of going in totally blind.

For example, I currently have 8 inch hangers/fangs/spring perch in the front of my chassis, and I want to reduce that length. So, I can raise it all up, which will induce several degrees on my axle mounting pads. The Cs are off, so I can reset the caster without any issues, I'm just curious if there is a “this is too much of an angle and the vehicle will have bump steer, or death wobble..”
correct, your caster will be off but just measure that afterwards and put shims or something, unless the angle is more than like 8 degrees? might be a bit much. if you shorten the front hanger (front eye of spring is higher and you have rear shackle) then it will feel like a stiffer ride. Up to you if that's a problem or not.

IF you have zero bump steer right now, and you change the position less than 2 or 2.5", you might be fine and not notice much difference. if you already have bump steer, the change could possibly make it a little worse? Ideally you want exactly equal length drag link and trac bar, and for these to be as horizontal as possible at static ride height, AND for these to be parallel to each other (as much as possible)

sounds like you know about caster- between 5-8 degrees is good, larger tires can get away with a smaller caster angle than small tires can... with a CV shaft keep the pinon in line with the shaft as much as possible. 4 degrees is asking for u- joints to be replaced every year. You'll know if you f*d up if you feel vibrations driving. unless you're into that sort of thing...I dunno y'all were talking about fingers and butt holes earlier...


hopefully this helps a little and the cucks that are too f*kin lazy to type up their "plethora" of knowledge can validate some of this.
 
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