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Discussion starter · #21 ·
tie rod can bolt on top or bottom of the high steer arms and I can also bolt it to the stock location, (although that defeats the purpose of the hi-steer)---problem may be with moving the mount back is it may hit the pig on compression---so today if I have time I have to rig up some stuff to get it to compress and stay in position(like panhard was attached) so I can see what I can do or can't do---

one thing I may do is angle the panhard mount more outside instead of 100% vertical off the frame----if I do that and move it back and bend the panhard bar and bend the panhard axle mount that may do it----

also there's notching the frame, but I don't want to do it, but I may have to if all else fails....

80's ford dana 60 mixed with willys frame makes things interesting, also not thinking about turning the knuckles and checking tie rod location doesn't help either.....live and learn.....
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
roxroes--are you saying bend the panhard around the front?? after rereading your post I think that's what you mean, thus that may work if I can figure out what to do on the axle mount--you'll see what I mean with the following pics---also your suggestion of mounting tie rod to bottom of high steer may be a winner, but I still need to flex it first before I know...

so I beat the panhard axle mount over and tacked together a tie rod to see what I would need to do---here's some pics of where I stopped tonight--last pic shows 4 3/4" clear from top of tie-rod to bottom of frame--my shock travel is 5" stuff and 9" droop--gonna be close, but I can space it down a little----chris
 

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Yes, keep the panhard more parallel to the axle, frame mount inside of the steering, and kick it around the pig.

Similar to this one I did on a 4runner:
 
Discussion starter · #24 · (Edited)
thanks and thanks for the pic--of course I'm opposite of this--frame mount and pig are on both side, but I can still bend it and go around it and I think if I lay the mount out flatter I won't have to notch the frame for full stuff----

my other issue(s) is now the axle mount---I pounded the thing so that it is out of the way, but it still kisses the tie rod ever so lightly(you see it in pic #3 the best in my last post) exactly where I'll have a bolt head(so I need 5/8" more)--basically I bent it over so much that the top hole on the front ear now lines up with the 2nd hole of the rear ear!!!! But, always a frickin' but, I can't bend it(the rear ear) anymore as it is going to be extremely close to the coil-over as it is now and it may be to close(need to work on coilover mount today/this weekend) ---also upon bending the axle mount I'll have to make my own mis-alignment for the heim as the distance between the ears is smaller---but really it's all a moot point as there's no room for the panhard in this location with the tie-rod at high steer----

so now I either put tie rod down at stock location, bend the axle mount back and go from there----seems like this or going full hydro will be my only options---I'll have to stare at it some more to be sure I can't put the panhard somewhere else, but really I don't think I have many options if I want to keep the tie rod up at hi-steer ---

lesson learned(which I just read elsewhere also, of course you always come across how to do things after you're into it and never when you are doing pre-searching)---:::

IS PUT STEERING COMPONENTS ON BEFORE PANHARD PLACEMENT!!!!
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
ROXROES--was just looking at your build thread and you are running your ram behind the axle--so if I enough room to clear the hi-pin pig and my upper link arm(may have to move it up one bolt hole at the axle and check full stuff clearance and hope I don't get some crappy anti-dive stuff going on) and buy(don't really want to, but you have to do what you have to do) different hi-steer arms I may be able to run the tie rod behind the axle---so thanks again for providing the pics and providing ideas, going down to look at this right now----chris
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
looks like a no go on doing the tie-rod behind--upper link & hi-pinion don't lend that to being a solution---

if I want to do ram assist I'll set the tie-rod down on the stock location and if I go full hydro then I think I can use hi-steer and set the panhard out front and tie it into the truss system---

I think for right now I'm headed down the ram assist aisle as it will take some $$$$ to buy all the hydro stuff and I just have to buy a ram or get a new shaft for the one I have sitting in the garage somewhere----

I have also come to the conclusion that on a hi-pin mid eighties ford axle that hi-steer and panhard aren't the easiest thing to achieve, unless you notch your frame or build the frame knowing what you have to do---chris
 
Discussion starter · #27 · (Edited)
ok I've made some progress although I did take some backward steps---

first off I've been staring at the steering/panhard bar thing since the last post and working on the front coilover hoops and I've come to the conclusion that hi-steer is out for now---so I moved the panhard mount to the rear a couple of inches--I made a quicky temporary pan hard out of some old steering dom I had from my cj7 so that I could work on the hoops and tacked the mount on and put the temp panhard in---I may have to put a bend in the final panhard, but that remains to be seen---the steering box will determine that and is my next move once I get done with the coilover mounts------

ok so now for the hoops, it took me awhile to figure out how to position them, when you are by yourself it makes things interesting---anyway I hacked out the wheel wells to get the hoops in ----I supported them with a piece of all thread across the top of the fenders --the hoops were left long as I wasn't sure what I would have to do to mount them to the frame---in the end I was able to hold them tight to the outside of the frame and welded them to the frame with 3 passes on each side and then cut the bottoms off about 1/2" up from the bottom of the frame---before I welded them on I made up two tabs(one for each side) with a 1 3/4" hole to slip over the hoop and the other tab was a basic tab---this was because I wasn't sure where I would be able to mount the tabs---the radius is tight at the top of the hoop and I had to leave myself some way to mount on the curve---one tab longer than the other----well I took some measurements, eyed things and welded them up---yep welded them on----well that wasn't smart, ALWAYS TACK THINGS IN CASE YOU HAVE TO MOVE THEM----yep I ended up having to put new tabs on in a different location!!!!! later on that

So my eye(ing) was off yesterday and I had to move the axle mount for the coilover also--I moved it rearward 1.5" cuz I had thought I could angle the coilover with the mis-alignments with no problem--well I was wrong, so that's why I moved it--well really I added one tab on each side to the exisiting axle mount(yep it was welded on also)---so now I have two places I can mount coilovers to on the axle---I'll get a pic tomorrow---

ok so now I drop the axle and put the coilover in the upper mount, but I can't get it to go into either of my axle mounts---the coilover is hitting the frame at full droop---see I had put the mount on the motor side of the hoop to clear the wheel well and it looked(eyeing it) like it would have no issues---silly me------ anyway that was to much angle at full droop ---so I had two tabs left over --these I moved to the fender side of the hoop and I had to move them forward about 3/4" or so---the top of the coilover just fits inside the hood right where it meets the fender, in fact I'll have to trim the wheel well 1/2" so that it doesn't rub---got the passenger side done and all is well except for the trim job---man if I only would've tacked the upper mounts on, but I felt confident yesterday that I was good to go---STUPID,STUPID, STUPID----so now i have to make two new tabs to finish the driver's side---

good thing is the panhard works, so I just need to see if it can remain straight or will I have to bend it some like I was going to go over the pig(eventhough I'm not--rear of panhard mount is just to the front of the pig where the cover bolts on)--the pitman arm will be the tell all here---

now one more thing---if you are planning on using a saginaw steering gear(may be the different with other steering gears, but all I have is saginaws) with a 3 link front with a frame built like mine(and many others without notches or bends for the axle to clear on full stuff) it looks like you should keep your bumper at least 21" from the center line of the axle---I'm at 17.5" and that's why I'm having these issues-- the front of the steering gear is going to sit tight to my bumper is what it looks like right now---

I'll get some pics tomorrow if I have time---chris
 
When I mount shocks at full bump I don't center them in the tabs. As the shock compresses your axle mounts rotate forward and the axle centerline moves forward. So I typically set them closer to a bind condition if that makes any sense so that they move without bind when drooped out.

It is possible to setup behind the knuckle steering with a double ended ram. A few have done it, first to mind is Kirby in his KOH buggy build, here is a pic from his thread. Just thinking if you can fit a ram back there you can fit a piece of 1.5" DOM across. Unsure though since the ram will hold its vertical position, but the DOM will kick up/down as both knuckles turn.



I believe you could flip your passenger arm to the drivers side, and get a double ended arm for the passenger. But it might crash into your motor since its probably not back far enough.

Its is definitely hard fitting a panhard, drag link and high steer in the same equation. Typically what you see is a higher axle mount to get its pivot point above interfering with the high steer. But then you need to get that parallel with the drag link, which will lead to custom steering gear box location or messing with pitman arms.

Read this thread, XJ's but still lots of pic's:
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=868831
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
I didn't think the axle drop would cause as much rotation as it did and that's what got me---when you've never done these things you're gonna get bit once in awhile--so far this is the only thing that got me and it was stupid on my part to weld the tabs on---but I get what you're saying on how you set them up--makes a lot of sense.....

I know guys have set things up behind, but it just looks to tight in there, so I abandoned it, as I'd been staring at the whole thing for far to long and needed to do something---

I found that thread a couple of days ago and have read it twice--definitely some good info there---

thanks---chris
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
here's pics of what I was talking about yesterday--got the driver's side done---now I'm going to read about steering box install--although it looks fairly straight forward I just want to be sure there's nothing I'm missing--

recap for the pics: axle shock mount relocation, hoop mount relocation and then some general pics:::::
 

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Discussion starter · #31 ·
here's a couple of shots of before and during the tranny hump --sucks to not have a bender, but clamps and angle iron and some good ol' elbow grease works in a pinch, just not as crisp on the bends---but the original hump isn't crisp to begin with so screw it.....

also I'm now on the full hydro steering set up---just to many things to overcome to go to hydro assist---so since that's a major purchase and work sucks the steering is on hold, so onto tightenin' up some loose ends is what's next---
 

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also I'm now on the full hydro steering set up---just to many things to overcome to go to hydro assist---so since that's a major purchase and work sucks the steering is on hold, so onto tightenin' up some loose ends is what's next---
You going name brand or surpluscenter.com? Keep chugging along man, its what I do, eventually the end of the tunnel will arrive!
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
Roxroes--I'm going to call surplus and talk to them---but I've also sent an email & pm to Scott @ rockstomper to see if he still has stuff--I've also rec'd a quote from one of the vendors here on a PSC kit, but I've been told that their stuff and Trail Gear's stuff has been developing leaks, so that I'm not thrilled about----

I'm toying with running a TG 1650 pump as I've been told that part is good and then running surplus if I don't hear back from Scott---I could notch my bumper and move the saggy box forward and that would work, but I really don't want to do that---

have you done yours yet--I need to go back and look at your build to see what you done if you have---what did you use???

yesterday I finished up the tranny hump, although it may see more at a later day but at least there's no more hole and I put some aluminum plate down behind the pedals to close up all the holes and finished installing the last pcs of 3/16" body armor under the doors and started to work on the tie bar for the front hoops(across the top of the motor)---

so yes I'm still plugging away at small things although I did want to get the steering out of my way---

still need to install the front ARB and gears(which I've never done), but my buddy wants me to pull the axle and bring it to him, but I don't want to pull it--I hate takin' things off when they're bolted up---so we shall see if I go for it myself or ???? I do need a dial indicator though and maybe a puller(need to check what pullers I have, as I have a few different ones, just not sure any are big enough for the task)---sometimes I need to just convince myself to do things that I'm unfamiliar with and so far I've yet to do this for the gears, but I'm getting closer to saying screw it and dive into it----

I'm also in a quandry about the fuel cell, I have an RCI 16 gallon that I bought a couple of yrs ago, but it's the short one(7" tall, 30" wide and 16" front to back) and I'd like to have a sump or an intank pump, so I've been avoiding it, but soon it will have to be dealt with---could always use the original tank, but they are only 10gals & leak when off camber, so I'd need to weld in a different filler neck at the very least---

now I do have the back bumper tacked on 8" longer than the body, because I wasn't sure if I'd stretch the back(still may) or if I would put the fuel cell(different one) there or make it for the spare tire or ???, basically I left myself options until I've made up my mind----

I did put the windshield on her the other day and put one of my seats in and just sat there staring--dumb, but yet satisfying.....

I also bent the shifter for the tranny with my press(not the prettiest, but I will cover the rod with something for now)---not sure what I'll do for a shifter later, but this got the shifter off the floor and allowed me to make sure the atlass shifters wouldn't interfere with it, which is good--but what a pain in the ass the cable shifter is to mount, or at least it was for me--I couldn't keep in place to get the screws in--the cable and little housing for it had to be routed so that there was tension on them and the slightest jolt would dislodge it and then I'd have to go back under the jeep wedge it in there and start over---cross threaded one of the holes and I needed shorter bolts, but they were metric thread, so I just retapped them all to 1/4"x 20 and I finally got it(took at least one hour)---I'm not sure why some of the littlest things can take so long to do, but they do sometimes---
 
Roxroes--I'm going to call surplus and talk to them---but I've also sent an email & pm to Scott @ rockstomper to see if he still has stuff--I've also rec'd a quote from one of the vendors here on a PSC kit, but I've been told that their stuff and Trail Gear's stuff has been developing leaks, so that I'm not thrilled about----
I got a PSC single ended full hydro kit with p pump from Tech Tim, best price I found at that time.

Who's been telling you that the kits are developing leaks?
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
overheard it thru the grapevine---no specific info, just that leaks have been happening---not sure if it's competition rigs specifically or not---

also psc does have great customer service, but if leaks are happening I don't want to be a guy with a leak if it could be avoided--

I may end up with psc, but right now I'm looking at other options as well...

on the way to the garage for some love time with my willys.....
 
Discussion starter · #36 · (Edited)
a couple of more progress pics:

first one is the front hoop tie bar and the others are the tranny hump and floor pan covering--I put some self sticking insulation under the aluminum for some heat protection--still have the passenger side to do and one 12x24 pc for the driver's side where the the gas tank used to be....

well the pics suck, so I'll have to take better ones--guess my trouble light overpowers the camera flash on the phone--chris
 

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Discussion starter · #38 · (Edited)
I've been in my garage since 9:30 am trying to decipher wiring crap and my brain has given up---I posted this on the TOTM 5.0 thread and I'll post it here also and see if someone can enlighten me:

ELECTRICAL questions:

I need some help here------

I've looked at so many wiring diagrams my head hurts and I'm still at a loss ---I've got the RJM harness and a cj7 steering column that has the ignition wiring connections down on the column---a white connector and a black connector that plug into its mate on the column and a cj7 fuse block---

my question is how do I make this work???

RJM harness has ORANGE wire for keyed RUN
and PURPLE for START

the wires to the column are as follows:

white connector: has a 10ga red w/tracer that splits to 2 wires>>> one side continues to the fuse block and the other goes thru the firewall---does this wire go to battery, starter, alternator or ???

white connector: 10ga red that splits into 3 wires>>> one side goes to fuse block, one side goes to a relay(horn) and other side goes thru the firewall---I think this goes to battery or ???

white connector: 10ga yellow that splits into 2 wires>>>one goes to the fuse block and the other is labeled volts---where should this wire go???

white connector: 14ga blue wire that goes thru the firewall---where does this wire go to..(starter solenoid or neutral safety switch or does one of the RJM(orange or purple) connect to it)????

black connector: 10ga red/white tracer that splits into 2 wires---one goes to fuse block and the other turns into a brown wire---I think the brown wire is to run the A/C or ???

black connector: 14ga black that goes thru the firewall---where does this wire go to??? brake failure switch or the orange or purple RJM wire???

then there's this:

alternator, starter and battery need to finished--- I've got the RJM 160 amp explorer alternator and the RJM harness for it and the starter has one connection and then the battery----so do I run a positive from battery to starter and another positive from starter to alternator and that's it???

all the wiring diagrams I look at have starter relays, solenoids, but I have none of that(except I do have an old relay or something on my fender from the old 302 that was used in the ignition circuit) unless it's built into the RJM harness, which I think it is, but I can't find that info on the RJM harness, but since the harness is to be pretty much plug and play or I'm thinking it is---but what gets me is what triggers the starter????

this is in a '48 flatty and I have no wiring except what's on the column the rjm harness and headlights(which will get re-wired with the rjm headlight harness)--I've removed all the guages, the old ignition switch that I can't find now(don't remember where I put it)--oh yea I know where it is--so now I have that and I did mark 3 wires--two of which go to the solenoid/relay or whatever it is on the fender and one I marked red+ ---not sure where it went( old coil maybe)---

so any help will be appreciated.....sitting here looking at diagrams and thinking----chris
 
Discussion starter · #39 · (Edited)
here's pics of what I'm dealing with: I think the solenoid needs to be replaced with one for a mustang--am I right??
 

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Discussion starter · #40 · (Edited)
ok according to this link:(I tried to copy and paste but it wouldn't include the diagrams, so the link it is)
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/prf-30805-30806instruction.pdf


painless purple wire(919) which is my blue wire is start, so I connect the rjm purple to this and I think the painless pink wire(931) is the run wire, so I connect the rjm orange to that one???

the painless red wires(934) go to the battery it says, which is a red wire in my white connector and a red w/white tracer in the black connector----but this doesn't jive exactly with the way my wires are set up---yea they can go to the battery although what I've garnered elsewhere, is the red/white off the black splits to a brown wire that's supposed to be A/C compressor power and the other leg goes to the fuse block---so do I take the brown leg and go to the battery, alternator or solenoid???? I'm thinking battery or solenoid as the alternator wire would go to the solenoid.....

Also the red off my white connector splits at the horn relay--one leg to fuse block, one leg to horn relay and the other one would go to the battery, I'm thinking.....or maybe the solenoid????

the other wires that are labeled ACC on the painless schematic I have no clue what to do with them, also the wires I have in front of me are of different guage than what the painless schematic is showing---all very confusing to me----will keep plugging away at it until it makes sense---

just found this: http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/project-cj7/images/cj-7-accessory-wiring.gif

in this diagram it looks like the blue wire off my white connector is for the tach, so now i'm really confused, cuz this isn't what the painless schematic or info says ....wow I'm painting myself into wiring vertigo---

ok I found this which explains where the wires go:

http://street2mud.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=182

but now where do my rjm purple and orange wire go????
 
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