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umm, I think a better debate would be 1/4 elliptic vs. coilover.

I like um both. But 1/4 is cheaper. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
 

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Originally posted by YellowCJ:
<STRONG>Are 1/4's streetable? Not on a daily driver, but just an occasional pavement trip?</STRONG>
Why wouldn't it be? If properly engineered, 1/4 can fully get it. I drive mine on the street.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Some of the AZ boys run (or used to anyhow) the double-shackle, from the looks of the buggies I don't think it was because they couldn't afford coilovers.
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

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I took My 1/4 elip Wrangler throught the 80 Canyon to fordyce at 75 80 No problem's
the People that talk Bad about the 1/4 elip are the one's that don't Know,,, or just Have Not wheeled In one You need bumpstop's and Limiting strap's Properly engineered it can be Matched to some coilover system's I loved Mine !!!!! and going to put it on another Project!!!!

What's A little Body roll Ya Puss!!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">


Adam,
 

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Originally posted by Moab Austin:
<STRONG>I would like to here a "PRO" about double shackle I'd like to hear it, cause I think they suck hairy goat nuts!</STRONG>
LOL. He said hairy goat nuts. <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> Anyway, I run double shackles for a reason. I watch too many people breaking shit on their 1/4 eliptical setups. Double shackles can't kick out sideways while they are extended(I've seen 1/4 setups do this on two different occasions on the trail). When the double shackle is closed it sits nice and tight locked against the frame for much less body roll. Double shackle is just simpler. No limiting straps. No holes drilled in spring steel or clamps on your frame. Simpler means less breakage/less problems. I can't really speak for how they relate to hairy goat nuts, but I really like mine. They are dependable, they can take a hit and keep working, and they do their job awsome.
 

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Originally posted by Moab Austin:
<STRONG>I would like to Lic hairy goat nuts!</STRONG>
I think this is what He said ??????? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">
 

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Originally posted by Aceguy:
<STRONG>They are dependable, they can take a hit and keep working, and they do their job awsome.</STRONG>
You are right, they do their job awesome. Too bad their job will never be anywhere near a 1/4 elliptic setup.
 

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I think you mean a shackle at end end, right Drew?

This is one way to do a nice, unrestricted four-link without dealing with new coil mounts or expensive coilovers. The shackle mounts are usually already there for you and you just add the four-link to control axle movement. It is a relatively heavy setup though.

A lot of the buggy guys around here have started using 1/4 elliptics (harder to design and get right) or some coilovers (more $$$).

Jay
 

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Guys - I am pretty sire he is talking (like Jay said) about springs with a single shackle at each end.

Pro's?

-you can use bolt on springs
-tons of travel
-controlled droop

1/4 elip. has the advantage of being able to move the axle to the very end of the vehicle for ZERO departure angle.

One could also argue that since both require a 3 or 4 link, why not go ahead and get the departire angle of the 1/4 elip. since you are most of the way there.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ooops, sorry, I do mean a shackle at each end of the spring and some kind of link system to locate the axle front-to-back. (I'm not a big fan of buggy leaves or missing-link type 3/4 elliptical setups)

If shackles were made that didn't allow lateral drift (more like hinges at each end instead of two plate shackles), wouldn't only two links be needed to locate the axle forward/back?

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: Drew Persson ]
 

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Originally posted by Moab Austin:
<STRONG>I would like to here a "PRO" about double shackle I'd like to hear it, cause I think they suck hairy goat nuts!</STRONG>
I was thinking a double shackle (one per end) or a floating axle mount would make designing your 4-link that much simpler.

Keep the leaf springs for lateral location while using the 4-link for fore/aft and axle-wrap.

Heck, you could probably get away with old-school ladder bars or a Ford style radius arm setup.

You would also maintain "stock-type" suspension if you're into competitions that require that. I couldn't coil-over my Scout II without changes classes.


Double shackle is also CHEAP and at least you could be dealing with a "known quantity" - you could use your existing leaf springs. You know how they flex, how they behave, and how your rig sits on 'em.

Heavier than quarter eliptical tho'.. OTOH, 1/4 elip is generally heavier than coil-overs, too.

Coil-overs have the added advantage of making your wallet a lot lighter, too!
 

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Double shackle pro's: cheap, can use existing parts, cheap to tune spring rate

Double shackle con's: Heavy, less ground clearance then other link type suspensions, lower departure angle

Coilover pro's: Lightweight, easy to change spring rate, cheap to change effective spring rate(change angle of mount) Great ground clearance, posible 90* departure angle

Coilover Con's: Co$t, mounting location, dificult to trail fix
 

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Originally posted by SquirrelMaster:
<STRONG>
Coilover Con's: Co$t, mounting location, dificult to trail fix</STRONG>
That was another thought I had on the double-shackle approach.

If you rip out your link mounts there's an easy get-home fix.

Remove the links, flip one shackle against the frame and U-bolt it.

As long as you have enough slip in the driveshaft, you can limp-home with an old fashioned semi-eliptical leaf setup. You may have to deal with axle-wrap again, less travel, etc.. but you won't have to deal with leaving it on the trail.

-Tom
 

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Lance said:
I drive mine on the street.
Bwahahahaha...

Quantify your terms, please... I haven't seen you using your Crooooozer as a commuter car... seems like I see you tooling around in the Pirate 4x4 Saturn. :p

When's the last time you drove your rig to the Hammers?

Let's define our terms... streetable. What'z that?
* Street Legal -- that's easily quantifiable, but that leaves out folks with beadlocks, without mudflaps, etc.)
* Street Safe - nah -- because everyone has their own comfort level -- I've seen 4x4's heeling over to 45 degrees on the way up Icehouse Road, tires chirping madly from the dual-spooled full width axles and balloon tires that are rolling pebbles off the shoulder even as they overlap the yellow line in the middle of the road.
* Something you'd trust a stranger to drive - depends on the stranger, of course... but this one makes good sense to me. If you can't just toss the keys to a stranger, without five minutes of explanation (don't worry about the chirping tires, the strange clacking from the axles, or the blinking red light on the dash -- and BTW, in order to start it, you have to pump the gas three times while rocking from side to side and flapping your arms like a chicken)
* insert your own term - insert your own explanation

As to coil-over vs. linkage-n-leaves -- I think you can build either as flexy as you want, with whatever characteristics you want -- the biggest true difference is that coil-sprung trucks will always lack the leaf-to-leaf friction of a leaf-sprung suspension, and the dampening that this provides. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing sorta depends on the application....

Randii
 

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First-off, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Coil-overs cost more but can be tuned to do anything you want

Dual shackles cost less and can also be tuned to do what you want, by switching BIG heavy springs for different BIG heavy springs


I've Built dozens with all these different suspensions that you've talked about, and they all have different handling charicteristics, pro's and con's

How about we compare summer to winter instead!!

[email protected] <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">
 

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Originally posted by Moab Austin:
<STRONG>I would like to here a "PRO" about double shackle I'd like to hear it, cause I think they suck hairy goat nuts!</STRONG>
Moab,

I'd like to here an actuall reason for you're comment.

Anybody can say somthing licks BALLBAG, but it takes someone who knows somthing to say why it licks BALLBAG

DO YOU KNOW SOMETHING????? <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
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