Pirate 4x4 banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,955 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
For those of you running hi-steer arms(any manufacturer) on your mini truck front axle, do they look like they would work in the reverse direction(ie pointing back toward the rear axle)?

The main issue I see is clearing the spring. I've got almost perfectly flat springs so it isn't THAT much of an issue but is worth asking about.

I already did a search and didn't find much. I also private mailed Chris Gieger but he wasn't sure <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">

Also, please comment on any tire to tie rod interference... I'm not using a huge offset(3.25" I believe but I've gotten some funky measurements off my rim <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,454 Posts
I think it could be done but you might have a problem with tire rubbing the steering box because you would have to mount it so far back on the frame. I see it being about where the shock mount would be. then you run into mounting your shock. Why would you want to mount your arms backwards anyway?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
Originally posted by ToyToddy:
<STRONG>I think it could be done but you might have a problem with tire rubbing the steering box because you would have to mount it so far back on the frame. I see it being about where the shock mount would be. then you run into mounting your shock. Why would you want to mount your arms backwards anyway?</STRONG>
Ditto, WHY? Unless you really wanted them out of harms way? Are you just asking? <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0">
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,955 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
On the issue with shocks/steering box, they are more or less a non-issue.... this is because the vehicle in question is an FJ40 with the minitruck disc brake conversion <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

But, in all seriousness, the steering box is a scout steering box that is mounted about 2-3 inches forward of the centerline of the axle(in a regular configuration, it has a forward facing pitman arm).

The main reason I am looking at mounting it in reverse is to keep it out of harms way. But, at the same time, it is for something different <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

The other consideration is the "fact" that with it in the reverse steer situation, I don't have to spend $150+ on a heavy duty tie rod and drag link.... the logic being: "If I don't have a bend in the tube, it shouldn't pretzle with just the PS box pushing on it".
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,955 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Originally posted by Drew Persson:
<STRONG>You could run more deeply backspaced wheels with the steering arms on the rear side, similar to an FJ-80.</STRONG>
Hi Drew.... that is basically what I am talking about doing.

However, the FJ40 doesn't have a high pinion third member in the front end like the FJ-80. So, the only place left to run the tie rod is over the third member(and springs)

On the rims, I'm hoping to keep the tires within the fenders front and rear <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> I just don't care for the 3+ inches of tire hanging out of the fenders or fenders that are extended 3+ inches off the body <IMG SRC="smilies/clown.gif" border="0">

BTW, thanks again for the deal on the FJ-80 rear electric locker... it looks good sitting in the front end of my Cruiser(unfortunately, the operative word is "sitting" <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">).

[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Lil'John ]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,444 Posts
John, I run the saginaw Ps on my landcruiser. I had OTT make me some shorter hy steer arms that were taller then AP's. The fit is great. a bit tight but great. There should not be any trouble with the tie rod hitting the springs as long as you cut and rotated the knuckles...

Did you ever find your old York AC bracket for a LC Six banger???
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
What a minute, lemme git dis straight... You want to mount the steering arms _backwards_... so there are out of harms way? Heh heh... what a PITA for little benefit... unless of course you drive... blindfolded and drunk. Sheesh.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,955 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Originally posted by carlspackler:
<STRONG>What a minute, lemme git dis straight... You want to mount the steering arms _backwards_... so there are out of harms way? Heh heh... what a PITA for little benefit... unless of course you drive... blindfolded and drunk. Sheesh.</STRONG>
Actually Carl, there is no more work involved than buying a pair of hi-steer arms and doing a Scout power steering conversion on an FJ40. This is assuming that the hi-steer arms available on the market will clear the FJ40 springs on the rear side... which at this point looks VERY promising.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,955 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Originally posted by Jason M:
<STRONG>Did you ever find your old York AC bracket for a LC Six banger???
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
Unfortunately, it sounds like the new owner of the six threw the bracket away since he wasn't going to use the york <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,050 Posts
I was wondering about clearance to the pumpkin on the axle. Other than that I don't really see a problem other than the box mounting. But its a cruiser so I dunno for sure.... Maybee mount the box inside the frame?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,955 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Originally posted by Skyetone:
<STRONG>I was wondering about clearance to the pumpkin on the axle. Other than that I don't really see a problem other than the box mounting. But its a cruiser so I dunno for sure.... Maybee mount the box inside the frame?</STRONG>
Fortunately, I have a long drivetrain that nets me a 34+ inch front drivetrain that allows me to run the front pinion unturned. Also, the third member is a bulky non-hi-pinion so it sits relatively low in the axle housing <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0"> Thus, if I clear the spring reasonably, I won't have a problem with the pinion being in the way <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

I think the pinion might be in the way of people who have rotated the front pinion to fix driveshaft problems <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">

On the steering, as I mentioned above, I am using a Scout box which for a FJ40 is a marvelous power steering swap. It has a long sector shaft that mounts on the outside of the frame. It also has a pitman arm that faces forward in the regular configuration.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
seriously, running backward steering sounds like a waste of time. are you really worried about hitting the steering in a high-steer set-up... I mean really, you can'y be _that_ bad of a driver, can you? There are better things to do with time and money. This sounds like a bass-akwards way to "re-engineer" something that wasn't broken in the first place. Hmmm, wait a minute, Triumphs are designed this way... and we know what great engineers the British are (Lucas Electrics).

I know, let's try putting the steering on the back axle and the rear axle in the front.. that way we can rear steer around obstacles that most people would hit, _and_ we'd be protecting the steering.

-Spack
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,955 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Originally posted by carlspackler:
<STRONG>seriously, running backward steering sounds like a waste of time. are you really worried about hitting the steering in a high-steer set-up... I mean really, you can'y be _that_ bad of a driver, can you? There are better things to do with time and money.
<snip></STRONG>
Carl,
As I've pointed out, for an FJ40 the money is the same whether I run the arms forward or backwards... in fact, it could be a bit cheaper as I won't have to buy "super beef" tie rod/drag link. One still has to buy arms and one still has to buy/mount a PS box.

Also the time involved is almost exactly the same if one is doing a PS conversion and hi-steer arms. One still has to mount the PS box and one still has to install the hi-steer arms. It might take 15 minutes of extra thought to remember to mount the arms and pitman backwards <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

If you(Carl) have any other advice on how I should build my rig, please feel free to email me at: [email protected] . Otherwise, I would appreciate it if you could be kind enough to keep this discussion on the topic of "can someone who is running hi-steer arms by ANY manufacturer see any reason why the hi-steer arms could not be run in the backward position?". Your uninformative replies up to this point have added nothing of value to this discussion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,006 Posts
Originally posted by carlspackler:
<STRONG>seriously, running backward steering sounds like a waste of time. are you really worried about hitting the steering in a high-steer set-up</STRONG>
I've seen high-steer drag links with scars on them from rocks, of course YOU don't have to worry about that when you're cruisin' the mall....... <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
Just a thought. I dont know how the scout box works, but If I were to mount the arms backwards on mine with a Toyota box, well, Everything would be screwed. You know, right would be left, and left would be right. In order for mine to work, the drag link mounting point has to be in front of the right wheel.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,955 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Originally posted by techman:
<STRONG>Just a thought. I dont know how the scout box works, but If I were to mount the arms backwards on mine with a Toyota box, well, Everything would be screwed. You know, right would be left, and left would be right. In order for mine to work, the drag link mounting point has to be in front of the right wheel.</STRONG>
In order for this idea to work, one would have to mount the arms AND the pitman arm backwards. Otherwise, as you mentioned, you would indead have reverse steering <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">

On the "older(pre-86)" minitrucks, I believe that the sector shaft(the shaft the pitman arm mounts to) points off to the left side of the vehicle. This results in the pitman arm pointing toward the ground. Thus, if you were to flip the pitman arm, the arm would be pointing straight up. But, from my understanding, when people with "older" minitrucks convert to hi-steer arms, they convert their steering box to a minitruck IFS box.

On saginaw, Scout boxes, Toyota IFS boxes, and a host of others, the sector shaft points down toward the ground. With the Scout box in particular, the pitman arm actually faces forward toward the front of the rig(I believe the Toyota IFS box faces toward the rear). When you flip the pitman around, you get the arm facing backwards toward the cab of the rig. (If desired, I can snap a few pictures of the Scout setup so you can visualize this)

Overall, the reverse steering arm modification while using hi-steer arms really isn't that labor intensive depending upon the type of power steering box. In my particular case, there isn't going to be any more work than installing hi-steer arms assuming the hi-steer arms don't cause tie rod interference with the leaf springs <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,283 Posts
Actually, the way to do it would be with a FJ-60/FJ-80/Bronco forward-pointing pitman arm, with the drag link in front of the axle and the tie rod on the backside. (Just like factory FJ-80, only with the tie rod above the springs.) This also puts the pitman arm on the same swing as the steering arm, for a consistent steering ratio through the range.

(IFS boxes used with any crossover steering arm suffer a decreased ratio of steering wheel movement to knuckle movement when nearing full lock in either direction, but it's not a big deal.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,283 Posts
Originally posted by carlspackler:
<STRONG>seriously, running backward steering sounds like a waste of time. are you really worried about hitting the steering in a high-steer set-up... I mean really, you can'y be _that_ bad of a driver, can you? There are better things to do with time and money. This sounds like a bass-akwards way to "re-engineer" something that wasn't broken in the first place. Hmmm, wait a minute, Triumphs are designed this way... and we know what great engineers the British are (Lucas Electrics).

I know, let's try putting the steering on the back axle and the rear axle in the front.. that way we can rear steer around obstacles that most people would hit, _and_ we'd be protecting the steering.

-Spack</STRONG>
Well aren't we a know-it-all newbie smartass. Go back to ORC, and leave us morons alone.
<IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
730 Posts
Lil'John,

A Friend of mine runs a setup your talking about on his toy pu. To make them we took extra lower bearing seats milled the top flat and then took the steering arms milled them flat and fliped them so they were rear facing and upside down. Welded the assemblies together. The reason we fliped them was for clearance over the diff and link bars. For the drang link we took an extra steer arm and made the passengerside arm have a fliped arm facing forward to connect the draglink to steer box. I haven't seen it on the trails yet but seemed like a good setup. Hope my description made sense.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top