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I think it's like being between a rock and a hard place.

On one hand.. getting the property now and opening it up may be the only wayt o make sure it's there in the future...

But on the other hand it does give the ease of an excuse to those wanting to shut areas down.

Yeah I know.. nothing really uplifting in my comment - just an observation.
 

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i believe that this is the way that we are being herded and is the only way we will enjoy our sport in the coming years
 

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vb said:
i believe that this is the way that we are being herded and is the only way we will enjoy our sport in the coming years
Not if me and others like me can help it, vb.;)
 

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i really think the deck is stacked. we are putin up some skirmishes and all but the money is very great on the enviro side even tho the science is not. they have lied to all the school kids for many years etc and those in a user groups just dont have the cluot.
i am somewhat depressed from the things that i have observed . not throwin in the towel just acknowledging that it looks perty bleek.
 

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or better yet look at all the pages on this part of the board and compare to the other topics available. look at the number of post here and the number of views.
i was at a jeep club meeting last moth where a guy two folks over from me was talkin about how "somebody " in the club should do this and that and this stc. ( he was mapin out some work to be done) and kept sayin "somebody" i vlinteered him twice and he said no, no but was real adament about "somebody otta"
 

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vb said:
or better yet look at all the pages on this part of the board and compare to the other topics available. look at the number of post here and the number of views.
i was at a jeep club meeting last moth where a guy two folks over from me was talkin about how "somebody " in the club should do this and that and this stc. ( he was mapin out some work to be done) and kept sayin "somebody" i vlinteered him twice and he said no, no but was real adament about "somebody otta"
Apathy has always been our problem. Iknow what you mean about clubs, most guys just want to wheel, don't want to get involved with stuff like keeping things open. The club I used to belong to was exactly that way, mostly pretty young guys that the second I opened my mouth about land use issues would either leave or start talking about something else. Its one reason I'm no longer a member of a club, just a member of SWFWDA (thru the club I used to belong to in exchange for doing their web page.)
 

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vb said:
or better yet look at all the pages on this part of the board and compare to the other topics available. look at the number of post here and the number of views.
i was at a jeep club meeting last moth where a guy two folks over from me was talkin about how "somebody " in the club should do this and that and this stc. ( he was mapin out some work to be done) and kept sayin "somebody" i vlinteered him twice and he said no, no but was real adament about "somebody otta"
Private land Off Road Parks have a history of closure. They face the same laws and environmental requlations as public land, and have insurance costs and litigation risks that make it difficult to prosper with a private venture. The greens have even used the existence of private parks against us, by lobbying the media to convince the public that OHV's do not need public lands, "because private OHV parks are available" (right before the private parks get closed through regulation and skyrocketing insurance costs).

Where can you find land that someone with deep pockets cannot buy (easily) and take away? The answer is public domain lands.

OHV use needs public land much like downhill ski areas need public land. How many large ski areas are on 100% private land? None. It's not that people have not enjoyed private ski parks in the past, but they cannot survive with todays litigation and regulation costs and risks. OHV use cannot survive on private land as well as it can on public lands.

The idea to purchase land inside public land is an excellent direction for OHV advocates. BRC has a program to begin this process, to purchase inholdings, that will preserve "guests rights" to traverse the land surrounding the inholding. VB knows the OHV opposition is well advanced in this mission compared to OHV advocates (with a goal of closure). The only way to make this workable is with land held in a trust, with covenents directing the trust (so a green majority cannot redirect the land access and usage -- like they have essentially accomplished with the CA OHV green sticker council).

Everyone likes someone else to get things done, even the green group members (we all have lives to attend to). What makes us different, from the greens, that we dont have the same level of activity (people working for OHV recreation)? The greens pay to have advocates to work full time, and chase member fees and grant funds to keep the advocates working. Half the green budget and staff is dedicated fundraising (or sit on charity trust boards), and the membership is pleased to pay for the help. When was the last time the club asked for funds before the meeting, and before the run? When did somebody buck up an extra dollar, without being asked?

Cal4Wheel is going through budget problems, and one of the first things they announce for cost cutting is the Land Advocate contracts. I know, the other uncut budget items must be important, so important that we need them more than wheeling opportunity (where are the priorities)?

What good is a club with no place to wheel? I guess we can wheel parking lots (and stage games of skill on the tire bumpers)?

Happy Trails!
 

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you hit some spots well. insurance and tort law are the death of private areas for sure. at some point tho folks will pay whatever- to do what they love.
we have a large club here that has quite an account behind em and i have petitioned them several times for funds to help fight a battle for an old road close to the large populated area where we live. to be fair they have given. and some would love to step up.oddly a few vocal folks in the club have done everything they can to throw in road blocks to any litagation. they feel that that is not a good posture for the glub. the short of the story is that the direction that the club has decided to take is to give more money and food stuffs out in the community to show that wheelers are a good group. (not that there is a single thing wrong with that) but as you said what are we gonna wheel on if we dont fight for access, and whos place is it if not the organized clubs
 

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Private OHV parks can work and they do work.. TMTC is doing them in Texas and they will have at least a 2nd park open by the end of 2003 and possibly a 3rd special use park open in that time as well.

Volunteers on the other hand are almost impossible to come by... we have 2000 + members and still only about 50 every step forward to do anything, another 60-80 will show up for meetings and even bote - while another 1000 bitch that nothings being done and the BOD is screwing them and the other 1000 do nothing at all...

For most intensive purposes.. TMTC is a sausage maker and the people just want to eat sausage - they don't care the flavor (cause they can bitch about that), or how to make it as long as someone else does the work so they can have a place to ride.

Having said that.. it's still a good idea and it will work in the end. (Although finding the right insurance company always helps so if anyone has any better ideas let us know...)

http://www.texasmotorizedtrails.com
 

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I guess it would also depend on the availably of public land in your area.
If they get the rivers in Texas closed to vehicles, There will be no public wheeling land. So I say bring on the private property owners willing to open their land, or organizations willing to help open and run these properties.

However, we should fight to keep as much access to public lands as possible.


Keep the Rivers Open
 

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In New England there is very little land open to us for our sport. In NH specificly we are not allowed on any public land at all. It is restricted to vehicles under 1000 pounds.

Here is what we are doing about it:

NEWtrails, Inc.

It is moving along, albeit slowly. We have just submitted our Incorporation papers and will be collecting the funds as soon as we have our tax ID number.

Then we just need to find our first piece of property.
 
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