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blueovalyj said:
Caster is the ONLY thing that will cause the death wobble other things can make it worse ---- BUT --- do not decrease it you think its bad now!!!!!!!
An increase in caster will take it away. Try 6 to 8 degrees.
You're right, I meant decrease the pinion angle or increase positive caster.
 

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when you install the longarm, i assume you have adj lowers, and you welded on brackets to the axle, if either of those is off at all you can have problems. I welded new control arm brackets on my TJ and dont have adj lowers and I am having problems b/c I think I was off 1/8" or so when I welded them on... When I go to longarms i will be able to correct that somewhat. The other thing to think about is once you have all 4 arms ajustable, at home alignments wont work well, The only reason Jeeps are easily aligned at home is b/c there is nothing to adjust by toe. Assuming the factory welded the brackets all on square, the axle will be perfectly paralell to the the rear and will track right, but with adjust lowers, there is no way to tell if you have the 2 axles parallell or not without taking it to an alignment shop...
 

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blueovalyj said:
Caster is the ONLY thing that will cause the death wobble other things can make it worse ---- BUT --- do not decrease it you think its bad now!!!!!!!
An increase in caster will take it away. Try 6 to 8 degrees.
I am not sure if your read teh first post, he has 7 degrees right now. Are you recommending increasing that?
 

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blueovalyj said:
Caster is the ONLY thing that will cause the death wobble other things can make it worse ---- BUT --- do not decrease it you think its bad now!!!!!!!
An increase in caster will take it away. Try 6 to 8 degrees.
I am not sure if your read teh first post, he has 7 degrees right now. Are you recommending increasing that?
 

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I just caught that myself ---- I would try the increase in caster from what it is now its kinda like that shopping kart that you seem to always get at the store with the front wheels that wiggle side to side... The more caster you have the easier it is to drive ----To a certain point.... Most german cars run 8 to 10 degrees caster for the high speed driving they do makes it easier at 100 to 150 mph .... most american cars run 3 to 6 degrees BUT bigger tire make a big difference and usally require more caster because of the mass
 

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blueovalyj said:
Caster is the ONLY thing that will cause the death wobble other things can make it worse

Toe in vs toe out causes DW too - From what I see...it will be guess and check til you either get it right or let a professional do it.
 

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Hey guys, My experience with death wooooble is it's shaking soo bad you think your gonna die and you brake until it stops. OK, this guys sounds like it's a shimmy problem. How about his draglink angles being to steep? Maybe just a stabilizer or high steer would cure? I could be wrong, because I don't have a TJ. Just my 2 cents.
 

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death wobble

had the same problem with my jeep a couple of years ago, ( D 30 )
solved the problem with shims to correct the castor/cambor, and did a high steer to keep the tie rod all most level,
used chevy 1/2 ton tie rods and the stock jeep pitman arm. just can not go spring over with this set up.
if you want to do a spring over you will need a flat to nuckle to work with.
 

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Too much toe in can cause a death wobble as well. With larger tires they can overcome a weak tie rod. I set my rig up with a beefy tie rod with damn little to no toe in, it wanders a bit on rough back country roads, but got rid of the wobble and drive like a dream on the highway. I don't understand the physics why, but a death wobble always occurs around 45 MPH, if you speed up or slow down it will typically go away.

As stated earlier ... a death wobble is so scary you think your going to die before you can get her to a stop.

Duke
 

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Like LUVMYTJ said, we did this swap a few weeks ago on my '02 Wrangler. When I first drove it after the swap, I got DW at 45 mph, that was extremely violent and would not stop until the rig had come to a complete stand still. When setting up the front axle, the angle finder on the lower, or upper ball joint, my caster was 5.5 to 6 degrees, even after we had it installed. One of our wheelin buddies owns a front end shop, so i took it too him. His machine said I had 2 degrees caster. He adjusted out my lowers, as far as they would go, sucked in the uppers and installed 1 degree ball joint shims to get me to 4.5 degrees caster. All was well, until I tried a fast drive on a stretch of interstate and the DW reappeared. I decided that I'd go over the front end with a fine tooth comb and I tightened every nut and bolt. I found that both the upper and lower track bar bolts could use some wrenching. I put a breakover bar on both, but I really torqued down on the upper bolt. I haven't had a single bit of DW since doing this. I do get a bit of shimmy, now and then, when driving fast over a whoopty-doo, like when going over a bump and the front end gets light. That's when I get a bit of shimmy. Currently, I'm not running any steering stabilizer and have just a noticable bit of bump steer, but it's nothing that I worry about. My advice is adjust in as much caster, as possible, in the 4-6 degree range and make sure all your nuts and bolts are TIGHT, especially the track bar. Good Luck.
 

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What is a ball joint shim? I have a HP44 that I can only dial in about 4 degrees of caster and would like a degree more. THanks
 

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are you guys just ignoring the pinion angle in relation to the driveshaft. When I did my lift i rotated the pinion up untill the pinion was directly in line with the shaft. I reaad that on a CV shaft you need the pinion pointed right at the TCASE. Which brings up a good question, what is more important, the caster angle or the pinion angle. I dont really want to cu off the knuckles and rotate them, but I might have too
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Tutt said:
any luck cisco?

not much!!! i put the steering stabilizer on and like was said earlier it masked the problem a little. but it is still there. i have not had the time or energy to get the bb's out and the tires balanced. it has been reduced to a shimmy and i only drive it about 2 miles to work everyday and never get over 40mph on the "commute" :flipoff2: so for now i am just living with it! however, i have checked every jam nut and bolt and all is tight. also since this was a build up all tie-rod ends and ball-joints are new. my caster is at 7 degrees. i do not worry about front pinion angle as i now have lock-out hubs. and my drag link and track bar are more parallel now than when i had my 30 in there. so i figure it must be the tires and the bb's. when i get the time and find the energy to pull the bb's out i will pull this thread up and let ya know the results.

on a positive note i took the heep to hot springs this weekend and i was totally amazed at the difference the wheelbase and the long arms made. it wasn't even the same jeep. i was walking up stuff i had to throttle jockey up before. if you are familiar with hotsprings there is a 5 rated trail called the "outlaw" . never could have even thought about it before. it has 3-4 foot steps that suck short wheelbase rigs up. i was able to make it up the trail on 35's. very excited about the results of my modifications. i got some great pictures (i hope) being developed but someone will have to pimp them for me if i am going to share!
 

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cisco said:
not much!!! i put the steering stabilizer on and like was said earlier it masked the problem a little. but it is still there. i have not had the time or energy to get the bb's out and the tires balanced. it has been reduced to a shimmy and i only drive it about 2 miles to work everyday and never get over 40mph on the "commute" :flipoff2: so for now i am just living with it! however, i have checked every jam nut and bolt and all is tight. also since this was a build up all tie-rod ends and ball-joints are new. my caster is at 7 degrees. i do not worry about front pinion angle as i now have lock-out hubs. and my drag link and track bar are more parallel now than when i had my 30 in there. so i figure it must be the tires and the bb's. when i get the time and find the energy to pull the bb's out i will pull this thread up and let ya know the results.

it still sounds like your toe in is messed up -
 

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Discussion Starter #36
might be but i have checked and re-checked several times. but i'll do it again
 

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Hey cisco, I would lean towards caster being the culprit.
Are you talking about Hot Springs AR? I'm around the Little Rock area.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
onetoncv said:
Check Caster- Jess

my caster is at 7 degrees. i have check it bunches.

dynahd2000-- yes i am in clarksville. we go to hot springs as much as possible. which translates to about once a month. we'll hook up sometime!
 

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cisco said:
my caster is at 7 degrees. i have check it bunches.
Put some more caster in it 7 degrees might not be enough for your application
Ive gone as high as 10 on 4x4s before. loose items in the steeering are NOT THE PROBLEM they can only compound the problem, Toe in, out - DOES NOT CAUSE death wobble. This comes from years of aligning lifted rigs...
 
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