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Discussion Starter #1
Maybe someone can talk some sense into him...

1) He is way "outside the box" - he is formerly the "greasel" guy who co-developed and sold conversions to run diesel trucks to run on straight vegetable oil out of deep fryers. He has 50K miles on his box truck/camper (you should really post pictures and description with details of that thing..!)..

2) He's got a crazy samarai. You should post pics and details of that thing too. Turbo diesel...

But -- 3) He's got a FJ55 he just picked up. Same engine as me (Cummins 4 cyl diesel). Is buying a NV4500 for it (smart move for a DDer), running 35's and probably stock axles @ 4.11.

But here is the kicker (need some logic and input). He has TWO minitruck crawler boxes that he wants to mate together, then put infront of the OEM 3 speed case. I am trying ot convince him just 1. I am at 63:1 and I am way happy. He will be at 300-400:1 easily. Not much room for a rear driveshaft with three boxes. And this is sorta supposed to be a DDer, right?

I don't even know if it's possible. But 1) I want to see pics and descriptions of all of your junk, and 2) Yes, totally insane if not possible. I am half kiddng and both half serious. :flipoff2: :flipoff2:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
To be clear, this is three transfer cases. I am thinking 1 crawler box and, maybe, the OEM t-case or a split case more ideally since he'll have to fork down for the adapter anyways...
 

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1. diesels were minitally designed to run off of Peanjut oil. Nothing out of the box there ;)

2. Cool :)

3. No biggie there, cept I seriously doubt that the cruiser 3 speed tcase will handle the torque of around 200:1 at the input. think Kabluie.. But as far as adaptation.. A Marlin toybox front with a standard mini dual case adapter behind it and the toybox/3 speed adapter at the other end would be cake.
 

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Yup, that is nutz, but to each his own. I thought that one of the beauties of having an oil burner power plant was the torque at low RPM; effectively, the motor keeps chugging along at almost zero RPM and is therefore as good as having a doubler.
 

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There is a good reason we call our diesel engines "oil burners." Using peanut oil/vegatable oil is nothing new. The cummins 4BT probably has more torque than most V8 motors. Say goodbye to transmissions (except NV4500).
 

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fj40charles said:
There is a good reason we call our diesel engines "oil burners." Using peanut oil/vegatable oil is nothing new. The cummins 4BT probably has more torque than most V8 motors. Say goodbye to transmissions (except NV4500).

What would the torque comparison between a 2F and a 4BT be? Similar? The 4BT be able to put out more?

-James
 

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Metal-tech'in
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Have him talk with Desmond w/ his mini duel cases behind a Vortec V6. Running his 44’s he munched two out put shafts on the last case before he ordered up his Atlas.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Stock 4BT for the weakest automotive version (non-intercooler) is 302 ft/lbs. The 2F has lots of torque but not comparable. It is literally unstallable. I have to give the brakes everything I have just to stall it in 2nd gear high! :)

Anywhoo, yes the first engine was run on peanut oil over 80 years ago. But between then and 70 years ago, 99.9999999% of them have been (and still are) run on regualr diesel fuel or some other petroleum product. Perry and crew are actually serious pioneers of running veggie oil in the country, particularly when he worked for Greasel. The reason most of you guys have heard about running veggie oil is cause of guys like Perry who have converted probably every kind of car out there proved that veggie oil works.. Veggie oil in trucks maybe took off 8 years ago, max? He still travels all over the country installing kits and SVO setups all over the country, running his huge '69 Intnational box truck 9 liter International diesel. That's how I met him, he was on his way to Cali :D

Anywhoo, when you see his shit you'll know why it's outside the box :)
But I still dont think 3 t cases is too good idea. Also one thing I forgot to mention is he has all of this shit lying around which is why he wants to use it in the first place...
 

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dieselcruiserhead said:
PS when you see his shit you'll know why it's outside the box :)
You meen smell it. "You want fries with that?" hay but it works.

There is a BJ42 in Portland running around on "Bio-diesel"

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #11
And cheap ass fuel too. $.40 to $.50 a gallon on biodiesel usually. Nothing for grease ;) - Only costs are retrofitting (if using grease) or setting yourself up with a processor for bio-diesel...

No "hay it works," 80% less greenhouse gas, 60% less smog, and BETTER for your engine, and it comes from plants, not Saudis. ;)
 

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proffitt's got a troopy at the shop set up to run on mc-d's oil
 

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Insanity aside, I'd advise running a split case, orion, or atlas behind an nv4500 and two upstream t-cases.
There is an orion hd coming out with a billet nosecone, and great big multi-splined outputshafts. It will come fully assembled, just like an atlas. Sounds like a good thing for this application.
 

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dieselcruiserhead said:
But here is the kicker (need some logic and input). He has TWO minitruck crawler boxes that he wants to mate together, then put infront of the OEM 3 speed case.
:nuke: :nuke:

One doubler with a Orion. Shoot, with as much torque as the 4BT puts out, just the 4500 and an Orion will be more than adequate!

MHO,
 

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You guys are funny as hell. I haven't had this much fun reading a thread since 'SVO to New York-O'! 'Course, that's likely just my ego kickin' in, 'cause it's all about ME, bab-eee... As insane as I - MAY - BE! :)

Seriously, tho, let's remember that 1: those high torque numbers are also at high rpm's (for a diesel, that is). I want to build a rig that will idle (idle, BTW is around 900 rpm's) as slow as I want over any obstacle I point it at (my math tells me that I'll be moving at a whopping 6"/sec in lowest gear). 2: All of these t-cases have a 1:1 high ratio, which means DD'ing or not, I always have the option of returning to stock gearing. 3: Three t-cases means I have a huge varible of gearing options for any type of terrain I may run into, whether it be loose debris, huge rocks, mud, whatever. 4: and most important, if I don't like the way it performs, I'll yank that bitch out and replace it with something that does! :) I like that option...

Gassers require rpm's to replace the torque that diesel's generate at low rpm's. Higher rpm's mean greater speed and less contol. Thus, a gasser is more likely to destroy a t-case than an idling diesel (my theory, anyway). Slow control is what it's about (at least when you're out of the mud, anyways). I've been in more wheeling situations where I needed lower gears, so I think I'll give this a shot.
 

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ppillard said:
You guys are funny as hell. I haven't had this much fun reading a thread since 'SVO to New York-O'! 'Course, that's likely just my ego kickin' in, 'cause it's all about ME, bab-eee... As insane as I - MAY - BE! :)

Seriously, tho, let's remember that 1: those high torque numbers are also at high rpm's (for a diesel, that is). I want to build a rig that will idle (idle, BTW is around 900 rpm's) as slow as I want over any obstacle I point it at (my math tells me that I'll be moving at a whopping 6"/sec in lowest gear). 2: All of these t-cases have a 1:1 high ratio, which means DD'ing or not, I always have the option of returning to stock gearing. 3: Three t-cases means I have a huge varible of gearing options for any type of terrain I may run into, whether it be loose debris, huge rocks, mud, whatever. 4: and most important, if I don't like the way it performs, I'll yank that bitch out and replace it with something that does! :) I like that option....
Okay, let's say that you run two mini truck cases infront of a J30 case.

The 4BT does make 300+ftlbs. Running it at 900rpm is silly, since that engine will lug to a really low RPM (Andre care to give a number?) Setting your idle at anything more than 600rpm is too high. There is no need for anything faster. With 383:1 gearing, you're going to be bored out of your mind at 600rpm. I doubt the 3 speed case will hold up as well. Atleast go to a split case.

Gassers require rpm's to replace the torque that diesel's generate at low rpm's. Higher rpm's mean greater speed and less contol. Thus, a gasser is more likely to destroy a t-case than an idling diesel (my theory, anyway). Slow control is what it's about (at least when you're out of the mud, anyways). I've been in more wheeling situations where I needed lower gears, so I think I'll give this a shot.
You're thinking about a 22RE or Mog gasser that doesn't really make any power at all. It needs RPMS to get anywhere with the lower gearing. Even then, with three transfer cases it still won't make the torque at the wheels since the torque is nowhere near the same as a diesel.

You're also going to have a huge amount of drivetrain slop. If you're dead set on multiple transfercases, I'd do maybe one mini with a split case. Try it at 600rpm. If you still don't think that's enough, then throw in a set of 4.70 gears.

As it is, I think you're insane. :rasta:
 

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I dont have a picture of it but, I do have a friend running 3 mini cases in his toyota truck. His truck is a 4 cyl but It can go anywhere. His brother owns inchworm gear out of cali, and they make the adapters for the cases.

- Rico.
 

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I'm with Perry in terms of gearing low to let the truck idle at whatever wheelspeed you want, since a diesel has so much torque at idle. Nice thing about a 2F is it's easy to bring it down to 300rpm with the brakes to keep your wheelspeed down...with the torque of a diesel at idle, it's governer is going to fight you doing that, especially when you want engine braking on a downhill. I agree with Greenpig 100% on splitcase for strength, and one mini box ahead of it (Toybox) to start, then put 4.7 gears in the minibox if you need to crawl slower (which I can absolutely see the desire for). Too many gearboxes get's you a really short rear driveshaft...the only advantage of which is breakover angle, which is probably not a bad reason to go with lotsa boxes. Lotsa boxes *will* get you a lot of driveline lash, though, don't you think? Took me awhile to get used to the lash in my 203 doubler in my H55F'd FJ60 (82:1 with 3.73's).

I hate having to bring wheelspeed down with brakes, so I get what Perry's saying...though 200:1 ought to be plenty :flipoff2:

Steve
 

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P.S. remember 400rpm is double the crawl ratio of the 800rpm the diesel's governor's going to want to maintain (depending on the pump)...when we rebuilt the VE pumps for my imaginary 6AT swap, after we boosted full-fuel as much as was safe, we could not get the pump to put out any less fuel at idle as the specs called for at 800rpm on the pump stand...in other words, I don't yet know from experience, but it's likely I won't be able to reduce idle fuel below 700-800rpm give the governor design of my pump unless I give up the possibility of increasing the full-fuel setting. of course, I don't yet know if I can use all that fuel at full throttle, but I intend to try. think of the governor as having dynamic range.
 
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