Sounds fair...thanks Brad.
Pro Mod Front Bumpers
Guys,
This was a hot topic for you for awhile...anything on this lately? Can you come to any conclusions?
This was a hot topic for you for awhile...anything on this lately? Can you come to any conclusions?
21 - 40 of 42 Posts
Brad,
I don't see why this won't work well. Good Job!
I don't see why this won't work well. Good Job!
Brad, any ideas yet? I wouldn't worry about Dave Cole's rig. With our current rules, he fits fine.
My stab at the rules...
The rule now reads:
5.7: Bumpers
W.E.ROCK’s goal for the Bumper Rule is to keep any stinger, push bar, or bumper separated from the mainframe rails so that the Bumper is not confused with any frame height/width rule. W.E.Rock considers the front bumper to be the foremost part of the chassis including push bars, stingers, etc. The rear bumper is considered to be the rearmost part of the vehicle.
5.7.1: Bumpers must connect the right and left frame rail.
5.7.2: A stinger is considered to be an up-swept bumper of an approximately "A" shape. It includes the top, sides, and any bends transitioning from its sides into other chassis components.
5.7.3: A bumper is considered to be the front most cross member at the end of the frame, including the actual lateral member, and any bends transitioning from that lateral member into other chassis components.
5.7.4: If no bumper is present, the ends of the frame rails will be considered the bumper.
5.7.5: The bumper may be detachable so teams may bounce from series to series. Bumpers may not be considered “Consumable” by having a thinner tubing wall construction of .095.
Rule Suggestions:
5.7: Bumpers
W.E.ROCK’s goal for the Bumper Rule is to keep any stinger, push bar, or bumper separated from the mainframe rails so that the Bumper is not confused with any frame height/width rule.
W.E.Rock’s Definitions :
Front Bumper: The foremost part of the chassis including push bars, stingers, etc. The front most cross member at the end of the frame, including the actual lateral member, and any bends transitioning from that lateral member into other chassis components. Any horizontal side-to-side tubes beyond the front of the front tire will be considered excess bumper. Any horizontal tube extending further forward than the front of the front tire will be considered excess frame.
Rear Bumper: The rearmost crossmember of the vehicle.
Stinger: Any verticle tubes higher than the top of the tire and further forward than the front of the front tire will be considered a stinger.A stinger is also considered to be an up-swept bumper of an approximately "A" shape. It includes the top, sides, and any bends transitioning from its sides into other chassis components.
Consumable Bumpers: The bumper must not be designed to be intentionally or unintentionally damaged in competition to provide any competitve advantage. If the bumper is damaged in competition to a point where it provides competitive advantage, W.E.ROCK may require you to repair it before proceeding to the next obstacle using the remaining breakdown time. If this is found to be an issue after one event, the team may be disqualified for any event thereafter due to infractions of Bumper Rule 5.7.5.
5.7.1: Bumpers are required and must connect the right and left frame rail while no further aft than the front most point of the front tire.
5.7.2: The bottom most point of the bumper must be no higher than the top of the front tire at static ride height through the entire length. Any means to compress the suspension must be released and this measurement can be rechecked during competition.
5.7.3: Front bumpers may not be made with smaller diameter than 1.5”x.095 wall steel tubing.
5.7.4: If the bumper is made of material other than 1.5” round tubing it must occupy the same footprint or larger as Bumper Rule 5.7.3 and not provide a competitive advantage by cutting or building smaller than the required 5.7.3 rule.
5.7.5: The bumper may be detachable so teams may bounce from series to series. Bumpers may not be considered “Consumable” by having a thinner tubing wall construction of .095. The bumper must not be designed to be intentionally damaged in competition to provide any competitve advantage.
5.7.6: The Bumper is required to horizonatally extend a minimum of 8.5" from the vehicle centerline (totalling 19")if the bumper sits in front of the frame rails.
5.7.7: If the bumper fits in between the frame rails (rails extend past or even with the front of the front tire) then the bumper is required to horizonatally extend a minimum of 8" from the vehicle centerline (totalling 16").
5.7.8: If the bumper is under the bumper rule of 5.7.1 by less than or equal to 1.5” teams may securly bolt or weld steel material onto the existing crossmember to meet 5.7.1. Additional pieces attached to crossmember will transform said cross member into a bumper and must follow all bumper rules.
Notice that the previous rule of “5.7.4: If no bumper is present, the ends of the frame rails will be considered the bumper” is no longer in effect and there are definitions of the bumper and extras to not confuse builders and teams.
The rule now reads:
5.7: Bumpers
W.E.ROCK’s goal for the Bumper Rule is to keep any stinger, push bar, or bumper separated from the mainframe rails so that the Bumper is not confused with any frame height/width rule. W.E.Rock considers the front bumper to be the foremost part of the chassis including push bars, stingers, etc. The rear bumper is considered to be the rearmost part of the vehicle.
5.7.1: Bumpers must connect the right and left frame rail.
5.7.2: A stinger is considered to be an up-swept bumper of an approximately "A" shape. It includes the top, sides, and any bends transitioning from its sides into other chassis components.
5.7.3: A bumper is considered to be the front most cross member at the end of the frame, including the actual lateral member, and any bends transitioning from that lateral member into other chassis components.
5.7.4: If no bumper is present, the ends of the frame rails will be considered the bumper.
5.7.5: The bumper may be detachable so teams may bounce from series to series. Bumpers may not be considered “Consumable” by having a thinner tubing wall construction of .095.
Rule Suggestions:
5.7: Bumpers
W.E.ROCK’s goal for the Bumper Rule is to keep any stinger, push bar, or bumper separated from the mainframe rails so that the Bumper is not confused with any frame height/width rule.
W.E.Rock’s Definitions :
Front Bumper: The foremost part of the chassis including push bars, stingers, etc. The front most cross member at the end of the frame, including the actual lateral member, and any bends transitioning from that lateral member into other chassis components. Any horizontal side-to-side tubes beyond the front of the front tire will be considered excess bumper. Any horizontal tube extending further forward than the front of the front tire will be considered excess frame.
Rear Bumper: The rearmost crossmember of the vehicle.
Stinger: Any verticle tubes higher than the top of the tire and further forward than the front of the front tire will be considered a stinger.A stinger is also considered to be an up-swept bumper of an approximately "A" shape. It includes the top, sides, and any bends transitioning from its sides into other chassis components.
Consumable Bumpers: The bumper must not be designed to be intentionally or unintentionally damaged in competition to provide any competitve advantage. If the bumper is damaged in competition to a point where it provides competitive advantage, W.E.ROCK may require you to repair it before proceeding to the next obstacle using the remaining breakdown time. If this is found to be an issue after one event, the team may be disqualified for any event thereafter due to infractions of Bumper Rule 5.7.5.
5.7.1: Bumpers are required and must connect the right and left frame rail while no further aft than the front most point of the front tire.
5.7.2: The bottom most point of the bumper must be no higher than the top of the front tire at static ride height through the entire length. Any means to compress the suspension must be released and this measurement can be rechecked during competition.
5.7.3: Front bumpers may not be made with smaller diameter than 1.5”x.095 wall steel tubing.
5.7.4: If the bumper is made of material other than 1.5” round tubing it must occupy the same footprint or larger as Bumper Rule 5.7.3 and not provide a competitive advantage by cutting or building smaller than the required 5.7.3 rule.
5.7.5: The bumper may be detachable so teams may bounce from series to series. Bumpers may not be considered “Consumable” by having a thinner tubing wall construction of .095. The bumper must not be designed to be intentionally damaged in competition to provide any competitve advantage.
5.7.6: The Bumper is required to horizonatally extend a minimum of 8.5" from the vehicle centerline (totalling 19")if the bumper sits in front of the frame rails.
5.7.7: If the bumper fits in between the frame rails (rails extend past or even with the front of the front tire) then the bumper is required to horizonatally extend a minimum of 8" from the vehicle centerline (totalling 16").
5.7.8: If the bumper is under the bumper rule of 5.7.1 by less than or equal to 1.5” teams may securly bolt or weld steel material onto the existing crossmember to meet 5.7.1. Additional pieces attached to crossmember will transform said cross member into a bumper and must follow all bumper rules.
Notice that the previous rule of “5.7.4: If no bumper is present, the ends of the frame rails will be considered the bumper” is no longer in effect and there are definitions of the bumper and extras to not confuse builders and teams.
This topic has been sitting for a while. Do we have any suggestions on this rule? We need to get things moving for the rules, I feel things have been a little slow...
your wording looks good, why can't we close the deal on this and move on.
Not sure why, there just doesn't seem to be any activity on this board recently.
I would like to get a few more thoughts on this before we present it to the teams...
I would like to get a few more thoughts on this before we present it to the teams...
Its not that complicated of a rule to me, I don't get why this is not done and implemented.
Ok since the advisory panel has been pretty inactive over the last few days, please feel free to take the rule as I wrote it and place it in the Comp. Only Section to get feelers from them
Ok, everyone wants a diagram. Lil if your going to create a 10 page document on the front bumper then please give me a diagram before i get slain in the comp. section.
We have spent a month on a rule that was fine the way it was!
We have spent a month on a rule that was fine the way it was!
Please post the following, word for word...
First of all this is a proposal. I am fine with leaving the rule as is, but whatever is finalized does need and WILL be enforced. Teams need to know that first and foremost.
Second, I am happy with putting together a diagram. I just need to know exactly what the diagram needs. Not just A diagram of the entire bumper rule but more like a diagram of rule 5.x.x.
Third, with the rule suggestions that I gave, the first portion of the rules was what is currently in the rulebook. The second portion was what I was proposing based off the flow of this exact thread in the advisory section.
With this being a proposal and not even my idea to change the rule, it does not matter to me what happens (If it passes or not).
I am just throwing out ideas since the board seems to be stagnant.
First of all this is a proposal. I am fine with leaving the rule as is, but whatever is finalized does need and WILL be enforced. Teams need to know that first and foremost.
Second, I am happy with putting together a diagram. I just need to know exactly what the diagram needs. Not just A diagram of the entire bumper rule but more like a diagram of rule 5.x.x.
Third, with the rule suggestions that I gave, the first portion of the rules was what is currently in the rulebook. The second portion was what I was proposing based off the flow of this exact thread in the advisory section.
With this being a proposal and not even my idea to change the rule, it does not matter to me what happens (If it passes or not).
I am just throwing out ideas since the board seems to be stagnant.
Lil,
how's this?
W.E.ROCK will have a 37" tall temporary wall set up for tech. Each team will be required to drive up to it. If the tire touches the wall before the bumper, it's obvious you are illegal. If the bumper/stinger/or other part of the vehilce touches first, measurements will be taken from the wall to the tires and that distance used as a reference for measuring whether the entire 19" width of the bumper is legal. Outside of that 19" does not matter.
how's this?
W.E.ROCK will have a 37" tall temporary wall set up for tech. Each team will be required to drive up to it. If the tire touches the wall before the bumper, it's obvious you are illegal. If the bumper/stinger/or other part of the vehilce touches first, measurements will be taken from the wall to the tires and that distance used as a reference for measuring whether the entire 19" width of the bumper is legal. Outside of that 19" does not matter.
The major difference in the rule is just requiring a "Front Bumper" and not letting the frame rails be counted as a bumper if there is no bumper.
Again, I am fine with no changes, but realize that ALL teams better be ready for the official call when it comes time. Tech will not be a joke and teams that wish to compete will be REQUIRED to run the minimum of each rule. I will be releasing our process for tech and how teams that don't follow the rules will be delt with soon.
Anything sticking out beyond the front bumper should be considered a stinger or frame extension. The problem we got into years ago was Becca had a crossmember that was at the proper distance for a legal bumper, but because it was not at the end of the framrail, it was not considered a bumper...it should have been because we had a tube running between rails at the legal distance of a bumper. Her crawler was the exact same as the diagram of the current ruling's more than OK you have shown above. As BR didn't want to re-define the bumper/frame terminology he deleted the bumper altogether after I explained over and over and over that what he was defining as a crossmember was really our bumper...the extensions further outward were simply a steering box mount. If we had to put a bumper on that, it would have put us and a few other teams at a huge disadvantage due to the way they were changing the rules.
Really, the way to make this fair is to define any tube connecting the left and right framerails, that is forward of the front tires, can be called the bumper, as long as it fits within the definitions of the bumper rules. Equally, it needs to be enforced that way.
Really, the way to make this fair is to define any tube connecting the left and right framerails, that is forward of the front tires, can be called the bumper, as long as it fits within the definitions of the bumper rules. Equally, it needs to be enforced that way.
I'm the same way as far as not changing it and you should enforce the rule, its werock's job. Watch, i'll be the first one to fail!
I agree as well. What is the reactions of the comp only area?I'm the same way as far as not changing it and you should enforce the rule, its werock's job. Watch, i'll be the first one to fail!
Most of the guys agree to leave it alone and just clarify with a diagram.
They also want to know where you come up with the 8.5" from the centerline and how you get 19".
They also want to know where you come up with the 8.5" from the centerline and how you get 19".
9.5" is the correct deal. 16+1.5+1.5=19/2=9.5
and it would be 8.0 from the inside of the frame rails
21 - 40 of 42 Posts
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