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Discussion Starter #1
I'm hoping to spare other potential buyers from the experiencing of working with Rob Gaskins at ProCut CNC. Unfortunately, before I made my large purchase I could not find any reviews online to warn me and I don't want that to happen to the next guy. You can view his website at Pro Cut CNC | High Performance CNC Tables - Tel. (763) 315-5019 to see his products.

We ordered a custom tube cutter and a flat table from Rob. There are pages worth of problems to discuss and the attached photos show just the tip of the iceberg. The quick summary is we were shown pictures and video of a tube cutter he claimed to have been building and selling. He even sent photos of test cuts he had made on the machines. We found out weeks after we received our cutter that all of those materials and the basic design were stolen from a company in Europe called Grotius. You can visit http://www.grotius.org to see their awesome looking products. We thought this is what we were getting based on all the photos, videos, and discussions we had had with Rob. What we received was a poor imitation made with the cheapest components possible. It was clear during our "tech support" calls that he had never worked with cutting tube on a rotary cutter before and was completely unable to help. He had promised to assemble and test our machine before shipping but that never happened either. He basically sold us his light duty LT gantry setup with a jewelry engraving machine rotary attached to cut 20 foot lengths of 2x2 and 2x3 11 gauge tubing. You can imagine how poorly that has worked out.

To top everything off we had paid nearly $3,000 for computers to be pre-loaded with Mach3 and Sheetcam with the Rotary Plugin. What we received for our money was a $250 HP laptop from Wal-Mart loaded with PIRATED copies of the software whose licenses were quickly deactivated by the vendors.

There was ZERO documentation or assembly instructions included with either table. He provided detailed plans for us to build our own table frame for the flat cutter but his measurements were incorrect and resulted into our z-axis to have less than 5/8" of clearance above the table once assembled. He required us to pay the majority of our bill via bank transfer so we have zero recourse to pursue that money short of filing suit in his home state. In hindsight that should have been a clear warning but we had no reason to expect we would end up getting ripped off so badly.

You can check out the photos for brief overviews of some of the problems. Before you buy do your research and know what you're getting into. You can message or email me for more information.

Also, I should give a huge public thank you to Wolfe's Fabrication at RTC1 Rotary Tube Chuck - Wolfes Metal Fabrication since he was instrumental in getting us up and running after the fiasco with Rob at ProCut. His products and service are top notch. Unlike Rob, his products even come with INSTRUCTIONS!
 

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so you join this site to bitch about a company, that isn't a vendor here, and you do it in the wrong section. How about you go fuck yourself.

:shaking::shaking::shaking:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Take it as you wish. I used this forum as a reference while we were researching our purchase and found it a good resource with excellent info. I didn't have anything to add to the content until now. If you do a search on this forum you will find the company mentioned here - yes, even in the Shop and Tools category that you say I posted to incorrectly.

You don't have to agree with it and your opinion is welcome but here's the truth: while contacting other vendors searching for a solution to the fourth axis rotary for the tube cutter SEVERAL well-known vendors and suppliers said they have had many calls over the years with the same kind of problems from this business but no one had bothered to follow up with a review or warning. I wish someone else would have taken the time to do so before me. This tactic is a last resort after five months of attempting to work with the vendor to fix or return the product.

At the very least the next guy that does a Google search and is brought to this forum may find something that helps him.
 

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so you join this site to bitch about a company, that isn't a vendor here, and you do it in the wrong section. How about you go fuck yourself.

:shaking::shaking::shaking:
If his info is legit he's doing us all a favor. Who cares if he just joined? His points are valid that he wanted it documented somewhere in cyberland.

Who cares if the company is a vendor? I don't see how it matters at all.

He got burned on a tool. This is Shop & Tools. Seems appropriate.

Seems like the BurnTables thread from a couple years ago. Most people appreciated that, from what I saw.

I don't know the OP or the company in question here, but the OP has a right to state his claims. The vendor can create an account and post his side of it, if he chooses. (I think BurnTables came to their own defense, IIRC).

edit: oh and flextrailers your pics kinda suck. Be prepared to post more and more detailed later, possibly. Don't do it for me - I'm not asking - but at some point if anyone here cares they'll ask for more specifics. PBB will often really make you back up your shit w proof, lots of proof.
 

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so you join this site to bitch about a company, that isn't a vendor here, and you do it in the wrong section. How about you go fuck yourself.

:shaking::shaking::shaking:
ProCutCNC is a vendor here. User name TMI. Do not dismiss the OP due to just joining.

I bought a gantry kit through Rob. The OPs post seems very likely from my experience with Rob. Piss poor instructions, piss poor customer support. Seems to have very little understanding of what they're selling.

If you need a vendor to help you with the build do not use them. If it weren't for this forum and plasma spider I would still have unresolved issues. In fact MC on here helped me more than Rob did.
 

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ProCutCNC is a vendor here. User name TMI. Do not dismiss the OP due to just joining.
I could not find that, if so, then I withdraw what I said.
 

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Why is everyone complaining. Pirate loves a good drama thread and this has the makings of one.

I would also recommend posting some better pictures. The eye chart above does nothing except tell me not to hire you as a graphic designer.

If they are selling machines with pirated software create a case with the Business Software Alliance. If they get investigated and fined you get a reward.
 

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Tubing Junky
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Seems to be the way somebody does business, visually copying the original then leaving out the important details. I feel for the people that go this route only to find an education at the end.
 

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Similar experience here with ProCut, though I got lucky and didn't get nailed for $3k+. My work was selling an old 4x4 Procut table that I picked up cheap. I got to looking at trying to fix it and when I called I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling that whoever I was talking to on the phone (quite awhile ago so I don't remember who) knew what they were talking about. One of the issues the table had was that the Z axis would constantly flake out or just not work at all. After seeing the cobbled together mess that they tried to pass off as a Z-axis feature and their complete lack of help on it I went out and bought a CandCNC electronics kit. Much happier with that aspect of it. I know that the cluster fuck of electronics on that plasma table is why my work stuck that in the corner and forgot about the table years ago. They never did get it to work correctly. I'm sure that ProCuts electronics could be made to work but I didn't feel like investing quite that much time in it.

With places like CandCNC, Precision Plasma, Starlabs, etc it really shows how bad some of these copy cat companies are.
 

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Why is everyone complaining. Pirate loves a good drama thread and this has the makings of one.

I would also recommend posting some better pictures. The eye chart above does nothing except tell me not to hire you as a graphic designer.

If they are selling machines with pirated software create a case with the Business Software Alliance. If they get investigated and fined you get a reward.
X2 I can't even read that shit.

I'm 99% sure my gantry was just a precision plasma gantry. I did get mine with electronics for about the price of a just a precision plasma gantry. I don't have any major issues. My biggest issue was the lack of communications and small problem resolutions. I think all of my issues / questions were answered via forum.

Numerous time I called just to be told I'd get a call back when he gets back in the shop or something along those lines then I would never get a return call. To be fair I could have pursued it harder and may have gotten a better response. I'm busy all day and I tried not to deal with it during the day, emails are preferred for me. generally took a week to get a response then it wouldn't answer all my questions. I always had to contact through multiple means to get a response in that week. Email, PM here, message on his forum and another email.

Most of the time I would be told to post on his forum to get answers. My posts would go un answered on there then my account disappeared off his site. I did re sign up later after having it for almost a year and still no working THC, I made a post didn't get an answer for a few days I stopped looking. Just checked it he did reply 4 days after the post was made. I had already made a post on plasma spyder and had it fixed within 24hrs.

I don't like to bah company's and I thought a lot of my communications issue were just the clashing of two busy people. Sounds like mine isn't an isolated incident.

As to pirated software I have no insight on that I bought my computer my self and my software through MC.
 

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so you join this site to bitch about a company, that isn't a vendor here, and you do it in the wrong section. How about you go fuck yourself.

:shaking::shaking::shaking:


Hay asshole, ever hear of if you can't say anything nice, shut your fucking mouth? Typical jerk ass pirate member reply. What a dick. Hence the reason so many do not like this site other then for the tech. Actually airing and sharing a problem looking for genuine help always seems to brings out the pricks and bullies of internet society. This type of comment would get you punched in the face if said face to face. Nobody cares about anybody in this world today. People are all just assholes to others they do not know. Whats really sad is those who run this site condone it. Even encourage it by not doing a fucking thing about it. Hell I've even been banned temporarily for sticking up for another member getting the same kind of crap. All of pirate staff should be ashamed to allow this type of treatment from any member to another. This is whats wrong with society. We teach our kids to not act like asshole people, be good, do the right thing, then as adults we (sme of you like thia ass hat act like this toward a fellow human being just trying to solve a real problem.

You bet your ass if it was this dick who had gotten ripped of, he would be here bitching too. Your're a liar if you say you wouldn't. I for one appreciate the info. I will be buying a table hopefully. I sure as hell will NOT be buying this table. If mods do not like my post. Feel free to ban me for speaking up and saying the right thing and standing up for another member. I do not need this site for nothing. I enjoy the tech too but this is not the only site for tech on the net. But it is THE #1 site I know of where assholes rain free to spew hate toward others. Nice job Pirate. Tell me I'm wrong in anything I've said. YOU CAN'T. But I will probably get banned anyway. Like I give a shit. I stood up for a fellow member and human being. I did the right thing, so fuck off if I'm banned. OP, I hope somehow you get restitution and resolve. To jerk ass, eat a bowl of dick and keep your mouth shut if you can only manage to be a dick to people.


Last time I stood up for another member I was attacked by all the pussy pirate bullies. Some POS aired my address and pictures of my house even. I received threats even. And I got banned. Pirate will NEVER get my loyalty as they have proved their true colors as far as how they allow their site to be run. This site could be so much better, but it never will be. I've been a member of another off road truck site for as long, where I have about 15/17k in posts. Here far less due to this type of personal attacks from other member toward others. God forbid, if someone even actually gets hurt pirate will have their blood on their hands for sure. I see pirate just like our US government. Never does anything about the chaos here. Just keep letting it happen. What a fucking joke.


Fredom; The right to defend against the tyranny and oppression or others. You ban me for this post and you shit on the constitution. Thats the way I clearly see it. I say do the right thing and give guys like this a warning. Not asking for him to be banned. But punish the right person, not those who stand up for others.
 

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First look at this,

ProCutCNC is a vendor here. User name TMI. Do not dismiss the OP due to just joining.
I could not find that, if so, then I withdraw what I said.

Then go here and read this.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/bad-sellers-disputes-etc/884459-rules-info-read-follow-join-band.html


which is located in this section for this stuff

Bad Sellers, Disputes, etc... - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum



Now go find yourself a nice little corner and play a quite game of go fuck yourself.
 

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I asked the mods to move this to the proper section.

.
 

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ProCutCNC is a vendor here. User name TMI. Do not dismiss the OP due to just joining.

I bought a gantry kit through Rob. The OPs post seems very likely from my experience with Rob. Piss poor instructions, piss poor customer support. Seems to have very little understanding of what they're selling.

If you need a vendor to help you with the build do not use them. If it weren't for this forum and plasma spider I would still have unresolved issues. In fact MC on here helped me more than Rob did.
MC is Matt at Starlab/Bulltear. Top notch products, top-notch customer support. Seeing his posts here (and at PS), as well as his customer's interactions with him, are largely what swayed me to buy his table. I couldn't be happier with the decision. Unlike the OP's situation, Matt has even helped me out of situations where I've fubar'd myself...nothing of his doing.

As for the "go away" aspect...as mentioned above, the Burntables thread was very important to me when researching a plasma table. Not only did it steer me away from them, but it helped me to realize that I needed a vendor that 1) was not only lacking in poor feedback, but 2) had a lot of positive feedback. Enter Matt/MC/Bulltear/Starlab.

FWIW, I too have been wondering about the ProCut machines...since I saw TMI advertising them here. :)
 

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First look at this,






Then go here and read this.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/bad-sellers-disputes-etc/884459-rules-info-read-follow-join-band.html


which is located in this section for this stuff

Bad Sellers, Disputes, etc... - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum



Now go find yourself a nice little corner and play a quite game of go fuck yourself.
There also used to be rules around here. The most important being:

If you're posting here, it had better be PBB related. You had also better have worked or tried to work with the seller before posting here.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/bad-sellers-disputes-etc/884459-rules-info-read-follow-join-band.html

The OP adds nothing to the community. He probably joined a dozen web sites to complain that he didn't do his research, know what he was buying, and was an idiot who was separated from his money. The company may be crap, don't know, but I guarantee the OP is only telling half the story.

1TON holy crap, take your medicine. You can disagree without flying off the freaking handle and cursing every other word.
 

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There also used to be rules around here. The most important being:

If you're posting here, it had better be PBB related. How is a vendor on here not PBB related?You had also better have worked or tried to work with the seller before posting here.I can not speak for the OP but I can tell you working with the vendor in question here is hit or miss. He came through on some things other the ball was dropped.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/bad-sellers-disputes-etc/884459-rules-info-read-follow-join-band.html

The OP adds nothing to the community. He probably joined a dozen web sites to complain that he didn't do his research, know what he was buying, and was an idiot who was separated from his money. The company may be crap, don't know, but I guarantee the OP is only telling half the story. Regardless of his motive for joining here I believe he has a valid point here. As you said your self you don't know shit about the vendor in question here. I do. The OP does. The story is always one sided. If i remember / have time this weekend I'll try to type up my case and try to be as unbiased as possible. This isn't the worst vendor that I've dealt with.
My replies in red.

1TON holy crap, take your medicine. You can disagree without flying off the freaking handle and cursing every other word.
:laughing:
 

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Nose to grindstone
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Flex Trailers contact us about fixing the machine. It seemed like pretty much a textbook fix until they mentioned it binds in its travel from misalignment. The whole machine should either be scrapped or fixed. These guys were taken to the cleaners. None of our business if the original poster wouldn't have contacted us, shown in pictures and descriptions the bill of good he was charged for and what he received.

So here is what we know

1. Flex Trailers asked Rob for a tube cutter longer than Rob had ever made.
2. Rob showed pictures to them of another make and claimed it was his
3. Flex sent him $20K?
4. Rob sent Flex a machine
5. Machine was less than what was agreed upon
6. Flex asked for Rob to make it right
7. Rob refused
8. Flex continued to ask
9. Rob went quite
10. Flex did a charge back on the credit card $6K?
11. Flex contact us and several other MFGs looking for a fix
12. Flex got a rotary from a guy that makes them
13. Here we are

I will say that for $20K you should have gotten much much more ...BUT dissapointingly there is not a plasma performance standard or even a standard saying things will work. If there was many top name brands would not be legally able to sell and you would have more legal justification. Just about any lawyer (including your lawyer business partner) would take the case. Flex got taken and Rob was in way over his head. His silence here tells you he does not want to make it right for these guys. He has so many shady businesses. If you look on the guys website he has a picture of a Christmas ornament from another cnc table mfgs website page as if made on a machine he makes in his garage. Plagiarizing others is how he has been surviving.

Here is what you should do Rob. Get this guy taken care of and get that machine running for them. They trusted you, paid you and they got a pile that does not make them money. Give them what they paid for. How hard is it?

FlexTrailers, Mike S I hope it all works out for you. You never needed to rotate square tubing unless you plan on making angles with it. Indexing manually is a lot cheaper. After spending a lengthy time on the phone with you Mike I really feel for you man. I cannot speak for any other of Rob's machines. But that aside..I HAVE GROWN TIRED OF HELPING OUT YOUR CUSTOMERS ROB....HELP YOUR DAMN CUSTOMERS OUT OR GTFO


Picture from Robs site




Plagiarized from http://www.flamingsteel.com/running-a-cnc-plasma-cutter-in-your-living-room.php
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I appreciate all of the positive feedback from vendors I visited with during this process and others that have had similar dealings in the past. While I'm surprised by the response of some on this forum and others nothing that happens on the internet shocks me.

My personal credentials mean little. Suffice it to say I'm sufficiently intelligent and educated to articulate myself without name calling and cursing. Rather than spend wasted time defending myself to strangers I'm simply going to post the raw evidence and people can draw their own conclusions. I'll answer sincere questions but I'm certainly not going to waste my time with name-callers and the like. My only goal is to prevent a similar situation from happening to someone else in the future. I'm not some "moron parted with his money" as one poster suggested. There is no readily available dedicated tube cutting machine on the market for near the $20,000 budget we were working under this winter and after contacting several companies over the course of many weeks selected ProCut CNC to build our rotary cutter based on the photos and videos we were sent showing examples of a table he had built before. He explained additional "upgrades" he had planned for our table as well, including the water tray to help cool parts as they were cut that wasn't available on "his" previous builds. The machine we were sent bore little resemblance to what we were shown before the purchase.

To be clear: we ordered the machine in December and received it in February. We worked in good faith for nearly 3 months before uncovering the numerous flaws in the design and the deceit with which we were sold the machine. Rob is not a stupid man, nor am I an ignorant consumer. He knows enough to talk intelligently about CNC Plasma Cutting and is a gifted salesman and bullshitter. In my opinion, he simply lacks the mechanical and engineering chops to back up what he is selling.

Review everything and make up your own mind.
 
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