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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Earlier builds:

D60 swap: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=230094

Wheelbase stretch and fully hydro: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335724

I'm starting this thread 10 months into a build. I've been documenting my work at a local board that you can check out to see my friends make fun of me for how long this is taking.

http://www.misfitoffroad.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9560

This thread will recap the high points of me swapping a 4.7 V8 out of a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee into my 2001 Jeep TJ Wrangler.

Why am I swapping in a 4.7 V8 and not a hemi, 5.9, or chevy engine or just building a 4.7 stroker? Well, the short of it is my brother-in-law blew up his 4.0 the same week that a friend of mine told me that he had decided to scrap the idea of putting a 4.7 in his jeep in favor of a hemi. The friend already had the 4.7 and my brother in law needed a good 4.0, so I talked my wife into a plan of having my bro-in-law buy the 4.7 and I would put my 50,000 mile 4.0 in his jeep. Since my bro-in-law's jeep is still his DD, he needed to get back on the road quick and cheap.

Here's some basic specs about the 4.7 compared to the 4.0. I lose 75 pounds, gain 40 hp and 55 ft lbs of torque, plus I only found two other swaps of 4.7s into TJs on the web while researching and both used autos, so I figured it'd be a little unique.

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To save money, I decided I would keep my manual trans, and keep it in the stock location. I had seen Greg55_99's posts on various sites about bell housing swaps that were possible with the NV-3550, and decided I would try that route. I got a 94-99 V6 Dakota bell housing (from the same friend as the engine, he's basically my pusher). Dakota is on the left, stock TJ on the right.



The big issue is the starter location, it's right where a drive shaft wants to be for a driver's drop setup. I was able to work around this by mounting the engine at about 5-6* up instead of 2-3*. This had the unfortunate side effect of making swiss cheese of the firewall, but prevented the need for a front 2pc drive shaft.

The second was figuring out what to do for flywheel and clutch. I did some parts book comparisons and figured out the following:

1) Centerforce website shows same p/n for clutch (384193) and pressure plate (CF361890) for 92-99 3.9 V6 in dakota and 94-06 4.0 L6. Both are 10.4 clutch with 1-1/8" 10 spline.

2) I can't make direct flywheel comparisons between the different engines (3.9, 4.0, 4.7) due to lack of specs, but I was able to verify that same NAPA part number is used on the 143-tooth flywheel gear (PN BK6003054) for the 3.9 and 4.7.

3) The clutch fork, throwout bearing, and external slave are already mounted in the bellhousing; so besides maybe the slave cylinder not having enough throw, I'm good. (No NAPA cross ref for the slave, part numbers match for release bearing BRG N4093)

4) 4.7 and 3.9 use the same pilot bearing. (BRG B128)

What this boils down to is that the flywheel and clutch from a 2002 Dodge Dakota with the nv3500 (non-removable bellhousing version of the nv3550) will work in the 3.9 bell housing. So I went to the parts store and got those parts, and picked up a 3.9 compatible starter using car-part.com.

Jumping ahead a bunch, I have now driven the vehicle, and the clutch works just fine. The only head ache I have in that area is that the clutch inspection cover is no longer available through dealers, and I haven't found a single junkyard that has one. So I'll have to make my own.

edit: I figured out that an inspection cover from an 02 Dodge Dakota with 4.7 V8 and NV3500 will bolt up after opening a couple of holes.

edit 12/10/13: Link to comparison of 2001 Jeep Wrangler 4.0 and 2002 Dodge Dakota 4.7 V8 ECM Pin out (Excel spreadsheet)
http://home.comcast.net/~johnnyj7903/WiringDakota.xls

C103 and C104 comparison 2001 Jeep Wrangler 4.0 and 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.7 V8
http://home.comcast.net/~johnnyj7903/chassis_wiring.xls
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
For some background on my vehicle, it's the standard run-of-the-mill TJ on 1-tons and 40s. We put it on narrowed 60s back in 2004, and then in 2005 stretched the wheelbase to about 106" by moving the front forward 8" and the rear back 4".

We've cut and chopped my TJ a number of times over the years, so rather than modifying the front rails again, I decided I would chop them off and start over with some 2x4x0.188 box tube. I also decided I would tweak a few thing on the suspension while I had it apart to flatten out the track bar and raise the frame end of the upper link and try to get more uptravel while keeping the jeep at about 20-21" belly height.



Here's the engine installed while the jeep was at full bump to make sure the drive shaft would not interfere with the starter and bell housing. We must have put the grille on and off 50 times to make sure we could still shut the hood. You can see that the engine is clear of the brake booster, but is getting into the stock heater area.



My old winch plate (for an 8274) was tweaked from years of abuse, so I went with a new one and made it the front crossmember to sink it down and provide airflow. Here's the jeep on its bumps with the engine in and hood down. No clearance issues, and the oil pan doesn't hang too low either.



While driving back from Flat Nasty with some friends (the pusher and my helper), we decided that the stock heater had to go, and with it the dash should go too. This cleared up the issue of the engine protruding into the heater's space, and the fact that I'm not going to run A/C made it a good target to lose 50 more pounds.



We started on the replacement dash, but have since refocused on getting the engine running. Here's what we got done in an evening. I'm keeping the stock cluster since the PCM I'm using can talk with it, and the stock steering column is staying for now, too.



Around this time I was stripping the stock 4.7 harness of it's automatic trans wiring and some of the emissions stuff that I won't be using. The 01 JGC harness I had made use of an external TCM to control the auto, so I had to pull apart a lot of the harness and remove a number of splices to make it manual trans ready.



I also spent a bunch of time trying to match up the chassis to powertrain connectors to see what was common between TJ and WJ. It turns out a lot of the signals were the same, but not in the same pins. I also kept the under-body portion of my harness that connected up to the trans, t-case and fuel pump and spliced that into the V8 harness.

I have spreadsheets of PCM pin comparisons and chassis to powertrain connector pin comparisons if anybody wants them. They are excel spreadsheets (or really open office spreadsheets saved in excel format).

I also did a bunch of work to see what other Dodge/Jeep controllers I could use that were for a manual trans and would talk with my instrument cluster. It turns out I had one option, and that was to use a controller from a 2002 Dodge Dakota with 4.7 and manual trans. I picked one up for about $100 using car-part.com.

One thing to note, other than having some DTCs set, I have driven around using the dakota controller stock without any reprogramming. One big benefit is that the 02 Dakota did not have sentry key, so by removing my sentry key module, I do not have to worry about key relearn or moving to a push-button starter in the future if I decide to go that route.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I wanted to stiffen up my jeep, so I tied the cage into my shock mount hoop through the firewall. It was made to fit tight with the hood to provide protection to the radiator and engine in the event of a big roll over.



I scrapped my SAW 2.0 coilovers because of their bulk causing packaging problems, and decided to run SAW 2.0 air shocks. These are about 4 years old and used to be mounted in the rear of the jeep. I moved these up front and currently have some Fox 2.0s in the rear.



Then I moved the steering valve to fit in right behind the shock hoop. This the same char lynn 5.9 cu.in./rev valve that I've had for a few years. I'm running a TSC 2x8 ram, 95 YJ pump with a speedway remote reservoir, and a generic trans cooler.



Somewhere in the middle of all of this, I figured out that the stock driver's side Grand Cherokee exhaust manifold pointed directly at the starter. (That would be the exact moment I was bolting in the starter from below, and looked up to see the manifold dump right above it.)



I looked around and found that the 2001 Dodge Dakota exhaust manifold pointed the exhaust in more of a back and down fashion, which would clear the starter. I ended up going with that manifold, which will push me into running dual exhaust, with one pipe running down the driver side tucked between the frame and t-case. It also has me doing more carving on the firewall, since it points directly into it.

A friend will be doing the exhaust in the next week, so I'll update how that is goes. Right now I'm thinking I'm gonna run Cherry Bomb turbo mufflers (Summit# IMM-16806) due to their 3.25 x 7.75 inch size.

As a recap of what I'm running as of right now, here it is:

2001 Jeep Wrangler, originally with 4.0L & NV-3550
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.7 V8 and wiring harness
1998 Dodge Dakota V6 Bellhousing, reused TJ shift fork and slave cylinder
2002 Dodge Dakota clutch & flywheel
2002 Dodge Dakota JTEC Engine Controller (no Sentry key, manual trans, talks like an 01 Wrangler)
early-2000's Dodge Dakota/Ram driver's side exhaust manifold
starter for 3.9 V6 (got it from a junkyard thru car-part.com)
speedway tru-cool chevy radiator (19x26)
unknown year Jeep Grand Cherokee electric fan

I got it started for the first time this past Sunday. Yesterday we finished plumbing the steering, radiator, and brakes. Tonight I took it for a ride around the yard with the open exhaust; so I didn't do much other than make sure it could drive on its own. But damn that was a good feeling.

I still have a list of stuff to get done including re-cleaning up the wiring after having to open it up to trouble shoot a few missed wires and finishing the firewall and dash rebuilding.

During tear down, I also realized that my front pinion bearings are shot and that my 8274 cracked a mounting ear, so I have to rebuild that.
 

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done yet??? so it's running...is it moving yet.come on the wheeling season is here.you can go to tenessee for a week with us and really break it in.
lots of good info there john..nice work.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks. It's moving. It needs exhaust before it moves too much more. I almost cooked my ankles yeterday after goosing it around a corner and then letting off. With the holes in the firewall and the close proximity of the driver's exhaust manifold to those holes it blows flames into the driver's footwell. :laughing:

I do have a laundary list of stuff to get done to make it trail ready. The plan for now is a shake down run in late May or early June followed up with a family vacation at the end of June where I'll be bring it along, and then an out of state trip the week of July 4th.
 

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JohnnyJ could you have got it in there without cuting the fire wall?


V
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have some room between the motor and radiator/electric fan, so it is doable. In some of the 5.2/5.9 swap kits I saw them selling a bracket to mod the shifter to allow you to move the manual trans up a few inches, but I didn't want to do that.

If I would have went to an auto I could have also moved it forward and not had to worry about rowing through the gears, but I like my manual; even thought its not the cool thing to do.
 

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I figured it had something to do with the tranny.


V
 

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If the Jeep you ripped the 4.7 from was a HO then you scored.

The Jeep 4.7 HO's come stock with these parts to make them the HO, which the 2nd Gen dakotas did not.

Crank 53021407AA
Cam left 53021411AB
Cam right 53021412AB
PCM 56044811AC


I believe the crank didn't reallly do anything for HP it was just an "upgrade" part to add strength. The PCM & cam had the largest effect for this motor. I have one in my dakota and they like high rpms.

edit:

Found this link that has some good info on the motor, looks like there was some crap stolen off the allpar website for the motor
http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/Cammer/4_7_v8.html
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Thanks for the link Majo. Once I have it up and running and all the bugs are worked out, I think I will try and track down the HO upgrade parts. It would be nice to be pushing an extra 30hp and 30ft-lbs in addition to the +40/+55 I'm gaining over the stock 4.0.
 

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All the dakota 4.7's I've driven with the High intake air boxes (either home brew or bought) seem to really help the motor breath above 3000k RPM.

The problem is the stock exhaust is restricting as all hell. I'm not sure about the Jeep's Y pipe but the dakotas have an integrated catalytic converter and it sucks. It's in a relatively linear region, I've been temped to cut it out and replace it further down the line in the exhaust. Dodge's answer if that cat gets clogged is to buy a whole new fucking Y pipe, it's complete bullshit. I'll snap pics if you want.

edit:
Good job so far, I'm loving it and keep up the good work.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Here's some pics of the little crap we've been trying to finish up.

I've got an vatozone air filter and intake tube from the ricer aisle. I noticed as I tossed the air filter package in the trash that it says "not for offroad use" on it, so I'll have to get something better for running trails. I don't expect much from it for what I paid, but it at least is something for now. The oval opening on the stock airbox pretty much insured it was going on the shelf.

As for exhaust, as I mentioned earlier I'm taking it to a friend, and my plan going in is to run 2.5" duals. Hopefully that will keep it breathing; especially if I add the hot cams.

You can also see the power steering reservoir (speedway 91032876) mounted off the crossbar. Both the filter and reservoir are pretty tight to the hood, I can slip my fingers between them and the hood when closed.

In the garage poser pic, the jeep is stitting at 20" belly with 5.5" up travel up front and about 4" out back. I refilled the front shocks with 300cc of oil and I've got them set at about 200psi of N2. When I add the winch I might have to bump the pressure to get it back to where I am now.

The other pic is of the steering cooler. I had looked around at where to put it, and decided that hanging it between the rad fan and engine was a good spot since it will get airflow but not constantly be in the way.
 

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I was thinking that the 4.7 is a warmer running motor that needs to be cooled a little better than your average 4.0 but I guess not.

I just was browsing autobone's website and was checking on stock radiator size. I know this isn't the end all, I'm trying to get the water pump's flow rate as well as the stock cooling fan both CFM rate for both apps, I'll post them when I finished internet researching them. I think your going to be just dandy though with your current cooling setup however.


2000ish Grand Cherocar w/4.7
Height: 23 7/16 inch
Width: 21 7/8 inch
Depth: 1 inch
Number of Rows: 1

2000ish Dakota w/ 4.7
Height: 23 1/2 inch
Width: 18 7/8 inch
Depth: 1 9/16 inch
Number of Rows: 2
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Exhaust was put on Monday. I plugged in the front O2s tonight and took it for a spin after doing a quick nut and bolt to make sure it didn't fall apart going down the road.

The computer is not 100% happy, and it keeps wanting to stall when you rev it with no load, but it seems to drive fine, or as good as it gets when running hand throttle.

The exhaust is good, not loud, but will give some noise if you get on it. I can say that this thing is one helluva lot faster than with the 4.0. Especially in mid to high rpms. Should be tons of fun at the dunes.

here's how it looked for the parade lap around the block. oh yeah, death wobble is gone up to about 50mph.

Radiator is keeping up with engine heat, but I may need to bump up from a 30amp mini-fuse or buy better fuses as I've popped a couple. Kicks on just over 210 and runs it down about 5* in less than a minute.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I'm in the PITA detail phase, but I've checked a bunch more crap off the list, at least good enough to get it ready for a shake down run.

Biggest headache this weekend was cleaning up the wiring harness. I had it pretty clean when I stripped out the auto trans crud, but then pulled a bunch back apart while trying to find my wiring issue. With it in place, it took quite a bit longer than when sitting on the floor.

The floorboards are all patched. The driver's side piece needs a few small holes cleaned up and some paint, but I was sick of working on it, so it's good enough for now. The pass side is filled and painted.

I also got the dash a bit closer, enough to give myself some time to think what I want to do next. I've got a CJ jesus bar and glove box door that I plan on mounting. Plus I need to put in a few switches for inboard winch controls and other misc crap.

Under hood, I think I'm all set. The only big thing left is to rebuild the front driveshaft and front pinion bearings before a shake down run. At some point I have to build some tube fenders and put in some inner fenders.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I spent a week on family vacation on Drummond Island and then a few days in Harlan with some friends. The jeep did well in Harlan, but a blown fan relay caused me some issues on Drummond.

I either have a IAT, vacuum, or computer issue because it likes to stall coming off idle, but otherwise, it's doing good. I hope to figure it out in the next few days and then knock out a few more projects.
 

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