Pirate 4x4 banner

101 - 120 of 286 Posts

·
Master Tinkerer
Joined
·
1,319 Posts
I'm not. There are a lot of people on this board and elsewhere who seriously busted there butts - for years - to keep it open. And who are still busting their butts to keep it open. We WORKED for it.

I think the LEO presence is necessary, I think 9 full time officers is overkill.
Bebe,
I don't think there is one person anywhere who doesn't agree with your statement. And our hats are off to all of those who are and have worked tirelessly in keeping it open. I think what was meant by it was that considering some things that the public and politicians have managed to do regardless of public interaction its sometimes hard to comprehend that this exists.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,330 Posts
I remember over 20 years ago on the rubicon, wish it was that way again myself.. Could go up on a weekend and there was hardly anyone up there, no drunks playing their bass at 3am, no 3am karaoke, hardly a spec of trash, not a turd or white flower anywhere, and generally a much more respectable group of people on the trail in my opinion.

But you know what, I can't have that back, and I will not spend my nights crying about it since it will do no good..I wish my tax dollars were not spent to educate illegal aliens too, or to fund liberal studies in schools, or give health care to someone who has no desire to contribute to society..

I am frankly surprised we can still travel the rubicon and hope I can for another 20+ years.. If it means I have to waive to a few cops than so be it
I miss those days as well. Camping at Buck sums up both sides for me. On one hand it saddens me to see all the new "lines" being created. Before the dam there used to be a single path over granite. Now it looks like an OHV park.

On the other hand I do not like wondering if I am legally parked even though I am parked on a granite slab.
 

·
flamethrower
Joined
·
12,597 Posts
Are there really 9 fulltime officers? I want to know real numbers here..
As I understand it, this summer there are 4 Forest Service FPOs, 3 State Parks LEOs, and 2 Eldorado County Sheriff's Officer deputies on occasional Rubicon patrols, with support from the usual CHP and USFS law enforcement officers working paved access roads.

Randii
Randy made a mention above -

While I was at the various ROC meetings, here is what I remember being told: 2 full time State Parks living on the trail (during their workweek I think), 2 full time EDSO's, 2 full time FPO's.

Randy's numbers are a bit different from what I have been told, but that's kinda normal when it comes to dealing with the government - it changes and you don't always get told.
 

·
flamethrower
Joined
·
12,597 Posts
I think what was meant by it was that considering some things that the public and politicians have managed to do regardless of public interaction its sometimes hard to comprehend that this exists.
I gotcha, but it's these people who have kept these folks in check, it's not just waterbars and rolling dips.

The trail is open because we earned it. IMHO it will always be open, I'm not worried about losing it per se, but I don't want it to be paved. That's my biggest fear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,441 Posts
I miss those days as well. Camping at Buck sums up both sides for me. On one hand it saddens me to see all the new "lines" being created. Before the dam there used to be a single path over granite. Now it looks like an OHV park.

On the other hand I do not like wondering if I am legally parked even though I am parked on a granite slab.
That is the one that just bugs the hell out of me.. The 25 foot rule is so freaking stupid.. It is typical of any "large agency" Nothing with in reason.. So many rocks will be safe now though..:rolleyes:

Randy made a mention above -

While I was at the various ROC meetings, here is what I remember being told: 2 full time State Parks living on the trail (during their workweek I think), 2 full time EDSO's, 2 full time FPO's.

Randy's numbers are a bit different from what I have been told, but that's kinda normal when it comes to dealing with the government - it changes and you don't always get told.
So are you saying 7 days a week? Or are you saying on weekends? Just trying to clairify here.. It seems more like part time here and there from what I am gathering..as always I could be wrong
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,441 Posts
I gotcha, but it's these people who have kept these folks in check, it's not just waterbars and rolling dips.

The trail is open because we earned it. IMHO it will always be open, I'm not worried about losing it per se, but I don't want it to be paved. That's my biggest fear.
I am still worried it will not always be there even with everybodies hard work.. It would not be the first time peoples hard work is thrown away and all for nothing.. Hopefully it does not come to that.. And if it does not get closed I feel it will get to where it is so over regulated it will be damn near impossible to travel the trail.. Kinda like anti gun folks, They can't get you guns completely so lets make it super hard to buy ammo..

A definate catch 22 for sure.. As the saying goes "be careful what you wish for"
 

·
flamethrower
Joined
·
12,597 Posts
That is the one that just bugs the hell out of me.. The 25 foot rule is so freaking stupid.. It is typical of any "large agency" Nothing with in reason.. So many rocks will be safe now though..:rolleyes:
That is currently being challenged in court, I think maybe in Montana...whether or not we see a change in Region 5, who knows.

So are you saying 7 days a week? Or are you saying on weekends? Just trying to clairify here.. It seems more like part time here and there from what I am gathering..as always I could be wrong
I think at least 4-6 of them are 4-10's, not sure , but the other three Randy mentioned are part time/weekends.

I am still worried it will not always be there even with everybodies hard work.. It would not be the first time peoples hard work is thrown away and all for nothing.. Hopefully it does not come to that.. And if it does not get closed I feel it will get to where it is so over regulated it will be damn near impossible to travel the trail.. Kinda like anti gun folks, They can't get you guns completely so lets make it super hard to buy ammo..

A definate catch 22 for sure.. As the saying goes "be careful what you wish for"
I get the 'people's hard work being thrown away', been there done that with Greenhorn. Over regulation is already here IMHO.

In the case of the Rubicon, the County, OHMVR and the Volunteers (FOTR/RTF/Cal4) are the folks who are all but killing themselves keeping the obamanation from turning it into a hiking only trail, or a paved country road to Tahoe.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,568 Posts
While I was at the various ROC meetings, here is what I remember being told: 2 full time State Parks living on the trail (during their workweek I think), 2 full time EDSO's, 2 full time FPO's.

Randy's numbers are a bit different from what I have been told, but that's kinda normal when it comes to dealing with the government - it changes and you don't always get told.
Pat, imho it is part time here and there...
- The State Park guys on loan to Rubicon are indeed working 40 hour weeks on the trail.
- EDSO are definitely not full-time for Rubicon duty. i'd estimate a max of maybe two days a week, and they start at the station at the beginning of the shift, and Rubicon time is reduced by travel time.
- USFS is a bit of a mystery -- i don't think the FPOs are exclusive to Rubicon patrol, but I don't know for sure.

FYI, this stuff is common conversation at ROC meetings, so if you are interested, the next one is the second Thursday of August, at 8:30am at the DOT offices.

Randii
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,441 Posts
The area that worries me for shutting down the rubicon is the enviromental claims and junk science. There is where the power lies to yank the hard work right out from under everybody at the drop of a hat.. No warning, no talking about it.. If one person(the right person, some judge or what ever) finds it is needed to shut down the area to public use it can happen that quick..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,441 Posts
Pat, imho it is part time here and there...
- The State Park guys on loan to Rubicon are indeed working 40 hour weeks on the trail.
- EDSO are definitely not full-time for Rubicon duty. i'd estimate a max of maybe two days a week, and they start at the station at the beginning of the shift, and Rubicon time is reduced by travel time.
- USFS is a bit of a mystery -- i don't think the FPOs are exclusive to Rubicon patrol, but I don't know for sure.

FYI, this stuff is common conversation at ROC meetings, so if you are interested, the next one is the second Thursday of August, at 8:30am at the DOT offices.

Randii
If that is the way it is then I would say for sure there are not 9 full time officers patrolling the rubicon.. I just wanted to clear this up cause the histaria works both ways and is not needed in either direction..
 

·
flamethrower
Joined
·
12,597 Posts
No worries on the Junk Science, it has been defeated once before by truth and proof. Rubicon is too visible and too valuable to be taken down by just that.

Politics however....that's a different story. A County resolution here, county resolution there....6 folks making decisions for the public without always listening to the public...that's where the real power lies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,441 Posts
No worries on the Junk Science, it has been defeated once before by truth and proof. Rubicon is too visible and too valuable to be taken down by just that.

Politics however....that's a different story. A County resolution here, county resolution there....6 folks making decisions for the public without always listening to the public...that's where the real power lies.
I disagree.. Enviromental reasons will be the reason it gets shut if it ever gets shut down..Mark my words.. They may use Politics to make it happen but it will be because of that.. And I have yet to see where their enviromental reasons have been spot on..
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
5,906 Posts
Spin it anyway you like, but it boils down to three or four agencies putting law enforcement on the trail. These folks will be in teams and will not be together on the trail, that gives better coverage. It is what is needed after the County has had trouble getting good LEO coverage, a failure of the FS to have LEO coverage on the trail and a failure of the users to manage themselves. (Which we were never really able to control other than some peer pressure)

No real blame here, just facts as I see them. It is sad that it has to be this way but when you sit down and really look at all the challenges, politics, logistics and landscapes, it seems the best solution.

I for one am happy to see an LEO presence on the trail after dark and early in the morning. That is how cops do their job, by being unexpected.

Who wold ever announce a bust on a chop shop or a drug house? You sneak in and catch them.

1, 10 or a hundred, they are now being effective.

Does it take away the feel of the Old West, where lawlessness and free lifestyle was glorified in the stories? Sure, but remember, in the days then, people "died" young for many reasons. It was a different time just like now is different from 20 or 30 years ago on the Rubicon. Pining for what was is not a way to secure the future of the trail. Being proactive and engaging in the process is the way to be effective.

If you would like to be engaged, contact FOTR at www.rubiconfriends.com and RTF at www.rubicontrail.org These are the only two places where the public can band together to make a difference.

Scott
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,568 Posts
A County resolution here, county resolution there....6 folks making decisions for the public without always listening to the public...that's where the real power lies.
Yup... but that goes both ways. El Dorado County's recent resolution stings in some ways, but further solidifies the public's claim to continued access to Rubicon, building upon their previous actions reaffirming road status as a non-maintained public road in 1989, declaring the road public in 1887, surveying the road back in 1856. In 2006, Placer County made similar claim for the public, and that's the one single solitary thing that allows trail use during the winter, when the Forests close every other dirt road that they control.

County Supervisors do indeed have a lot of power -- and that can work for OHV or against OHV, which is why I worked so hard to make RTF politically active when I was president, and why Del Albright built County representation into RTF when he first roughed up the bylaws.

I'd rather be 'wheeling... but politics is NECESSARY, as well. Hell, I'd rather have a solitary experience on Rubicon... but increased population makes enforcement necessary, as well. Sometimes i mourn the politics/popularity fo the hobby, but better popularity can help politically, as well. Damn, it is WAY too early in the morning to be this contemplative! :eek:

Randii
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,441 Posts
It's all good if not taken too far the other way too.. That damn fine line always in the way.. I will admit it does not take much for one of those human officers to go beyound that line..

over all it maybe be the best for now.. Just wish it never got this far
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
5,906 Posts
The area that worries me for shutting down the rubicon is the enviromental claims and junk science. There is where the power lies to yank the hard work right out from under everybody at the drop of a hat.. No warning, no talking about it.. If one person(the right person, some judge or what ever) finds it is needed to shut down the area to public use it can happen that quick..
El Dorado County, RTF and FOTR did very well with junk science during the Water Board hearing and are monitoring the Cleanup and Abatement Order very closely. Being as I am now the president of RTF, all I can do is assure you we are on it as well as can be.

The political side of this IS where the danger is. If it were all logical science decisions, we would not have a problem. It is the political power and the money behind that is the danger. One judge with the right lawsuit can do just that. With a finger on the pulse, hopefully that can be avoided.

We, RTF, have learned well in the last two years how to play the political game. We have had some luck and all the long hours and hard work are paying off. Support us and you support the political fight.



Scott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,907 Posts
El Dorado County, RTF and FOTR did very well with junk science during the Water Board hearing and are monitoring the Cleanup and Abatement Order very closely. Being as I am now the president of RTF, all I can do is assure you we are on it as well as can be.

The political side of this IS where the danger is. If it were all logical science decisions, we would not have a problem. It is the political power and the money behind that is the danger. One judge with the right lawsuit can do just that. With a finger on the pulse, hopefully that can be avoided.

We, RTF, have learned well in the last two years how to play the political game. We have had some luck and all the long hours and hard work are paying off. Support us and you support the political fight.



Scott
THANK YOU!!!!!! for ALL you guys do to keep it open for us. If not for you hard working folks that stood up, took charge and LEARNED alot in the last 6yrs we would not still have this trail.

We all need to join these groups, spend time with them on the clean ups and get to the meetings to show our true numbers of responsible wheelers. I just wish the meetings were on weekends for us with a bit of a drive and work schedules to contend with ;)

:beer: to those that put their blood, sweat, tears and hair pulling madness into keeping the Con an unpaved road and going toe toe with the enviro-tards and their junk science :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,441 Posts
El Dorado County, RTF and FOTR did very well with junk science during the Water Board hearing and are monitoring the Cleanup and Abatement Order very closely. Being as I am now the president of RTF, all I can do is assure you we are on it as well as can be.

The political side of this IS where the danger is. If it were all logical science decisions, we would not have a problem. It is the political power and the money behind that is the danger. One judge with the right lawsuit can do just that. With a finger on the pulse, hopefully that can be avoided.

We, RTF, have learned well in the last two years how to play the political game. We have had some luck and all the long hours and hard work are paying off. Support us and you support the political fight.



Scott
Good info, But I will stick with enviromental issues will be the surprise hidden in crackerjacks, It can come from areas that have no interest with the rubicon, cover broad areas that the rubicon falls into and snap, bang, pow, we are in deep doodoo.. Keep up the work though there Guys:) your doing when a lot just talk
 
101 - 120 of 286 Posts
Top