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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
RE: Lance's cutting brake/linelock/arb-??

Question for anyone who may know the answer.
(No, this isn't a test)

How would you configure a "cutting-brake"
system for a 4x4??

What factor does the line-lock play into
the whole picture?

If the line-lock is used to "Lock-up" the
inside rear tire to drive around an obstacle,
would this be possible if you ran a rear
Detroit locker?

Thanks in advance,

Sherpa
 

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Line-locks and cutting brakes are different things.... I suppose you can make a linelock behave a bit like a cutting brake, but let's just talk about line-locks for now.

First off -- the behavior depends entirely where the line-lock is wired in -- some ARCA rigs are running them at all four wheels. With four switches, two air lockers, and a twin-stick Atlas, that provides truly a dizzying array of options.

I've played with them to drag a single rear wheel, but I haven't used them on a front wheel. Dragging an inside rear with an airlocker really cuts down on the turning radius, especially if you toggle out the inside front wheel hub. I'm not sure how practical THAT last bit is... <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

As for using a line-lock as a turning brake with a Detroit, I can only speculate, since I run an ARB. It doesn't seem to me like the line lock, if attached to just one wheel circuit, would drag the wheel at all... I reckon the locker would just power through the brake. That's the way it works on my ARB'ed truck...

Randii
 

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You use the line lock to lock up the rear wheels. Then, with a twin stick t-case, you disengage the rear drive. Now you crank the wheels and pivot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks for the input. Patman had an idea:
use 2 line locks for the rear only. 1 left,
1 right. pump the brakes, push the button
for which side you want to lock, then release
the peddle and turn. might work.

I also thought of the "Skid-steer" method,
of a side-to-side turn method... not sure it
would work in rocks too well though...

I hadn't thought about dis-engaging the
rear driveline and pull-thru with the front
axle only... What good would it do to "lock-
up" the 2 rear wheels and drag-them thru the
turn????

thanks again,

Sherpa
 

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Patman had an idea: use 2 line locks for the rear only. 1 left, 1 right. pump the brakes, push the button for which side you want to lock, then release the peddle and turn. might work.
It does... as noted above, that's what some of the ARCA boyz are using. Still not as flexible/adjustable as a true cutting brake, but far better than nothing.

I hadn't thought about dis-engaging the
rear driveline and pull-thru with the front
axle only... What good would it do to "lock-
up" the 2 rear wheels and drag-them thru the
turn????

That's the whole point... only lock the one on the inside of the corner. Crank the wheel into the turn and your turning radius will be dramatically less.

Randii
 

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we used the line lock on just about every obstacle last weekend. The line lock is plumbed into both rear brakes.

1) Disengage rear axle
2) hit brakes
3) hit line lock switch
4) pivot like a mofo. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

I really don't see a practicle use for this other than competition. Just backup. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thanks Kelly,

hope Lance is feeling better... <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
 

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Keep in mind that a detroit unlocks when there is no power going to it when turning. But running one line lock to the whole rear end works more than good enough for me. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
 

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we used the line lock on just about every obstacle last weekend. The line lock is plumbed into both rear brakes.
Ah... that makes sense. You're cutting to just front wheel drive, right? That takes the Detroit outta the equation. <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

I really don't see a practicle use for this other than competition. Just backup. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Agreed -- after I was done playing with the dual line locks, I cut them out of the brake lines on the axle and put one in the rear brake line just down from the master cylinder, and put the other on the shelf for future projects. Hell, I've got too many sticks and switches to twiddle as it is... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Randii
 

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Keep in mind that a detroit unlocks when there is no power going to it when turning. But running one line lock to the whole rear end works more than good enough for me

SO you have to have a twin stick on your transfer case to use a line-lock like that, if I am following what you are saying???
 

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Sherp, I'm gonna go with two linelocks on the rear axle, engage only the inner brake, put the Atlas in front wheel drive and PIVOT BABY!!! ....

Randii, why did you off one of your rear linelocks?? does locking both rears work as well as locking only the inner tire?
 

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Why couldn't a person get some small single-resivoir master/hydraulic cylinders and plumb one into each side of the rear brakes? You could leave the regular master cylinder plumbed in, just tee these other ones in and run hand-levers to them?

It could be confusing at first if working the foot brakes and the hand brakes at the same time, but not hard to cope with...

Squash
 

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Originally posted by Realsquash:
<STRONG>Why couldn't a person get some small single-resivoir master/hydraulic cylinders and plumb one into each side of the rear brakes? You could leave the regular master cylinder plumbed in, just tee these other ones in and run hand-levers to them?

It could be confusing at first if working the foot brakes and the hand brakes at the same time, but not hard to cope with...

Squash</STRONG>

That's what true "cutting brakes" are, and you can get the units from any Buggy/SandRail shop. But linelocs are cheaper, and that is enough motivation for most.

As far as the Detroit goes, theoretically, if the rear drive is disengaged, the Locker will unlock and allow the unlocked (by the brakes) wheel freewheel, but in real life it usually takes a little more than being drug a few feet in the dirt for that to happen.
 

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How about using a caliper with a built in parking brake? Instead of having one lever to activate both, could you not have two levers, one for each side? This is for disc equiped trucks, but wouldn't the same hold true for drum trucks with e-brakes on both sides? I know most e-brakes are one cable to the rear then split, but couldn't you just run two cables as well? <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">
 

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From my observations of this past weekends event in Farmington it seemed to me that the single line lock worked well in most situations ... including those where both rears had good traction.
However, there were a few instances where a dual setup really stood out ... paticularly when at an angle in the soft base sand at the edge of a ledge climb.
In those cases the single lock equipped rigs might have been better off with dualies curning both fronts and the outside rear wheel to help spin the rear around.
This situation was most acute in Kelly's case on # 8 of the lower coarse after exiting the end (big hole) turn around.
The next obsticle was an inside off camber left turn up onto a ledge from a sandy pit with a sharp right turn on top.
Those who went with 2WD buried the unlocked outside front, achieving little pivot.
In that situation an outside rear 3rd WD help the dual line locked rigs get a tighter turn by pushing the rear around in the sand with less bog down of the outside front.
It's not to say that this situation occurs often enough to warrent adding a second line lock ... it was is just an interesting observation I made while tending that particular gate.
 
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