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Discussion Starter #41

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noooooooooo its called drunkiness, alcholics go to meetings :flipoff2:



































Disclaimer: to those of you that do pro this is in no way meant to disrespect those that try to better yourself.













expect in pro's case where the drunkiness probably wont go away soo might as well stopp attending the meetings there pro :)
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
noooooooooo its called drunkiness, alcholics go to meetings :flipoff2:

expect in pro's case where the drunkiness probably wont go away soo might as well stopp attending the meetings there pro :)
:laughing: I saw that you bastard :flipoff2:
 

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holy shit stop the presses. . . . . . . . . .someone on here has enough processing power to notice that, now is princess going to be all butthurt now lol,










this thread went downhill quick, ahh the fun.
 

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Thanks for the tips Pro. I never thought about using copper pipe. I don't have any way to braze, so I would have to solder if I went that route. Isn't copper house plumbing just soldered? I think typical water pressure in a house is 40-50 psi, but I could be wrong. If it is though, then soldering should be fine for an automotive cooling system that runs at 13-16psi.

I just started on my rear radiator project last weekend. My buddy has been running one for about 3-4 yrs now. The first one he actually laid down flat on the rear of the frame. Everyone said it wouldn't work, but with a good fan (came off a Volvo turbo car) it worked. He ran his coolant through the rock rails which are just thick walled steel pipe.

The first early fans that didn't work as well:




An exo-cage was added that protected the radiator. Pics taken during build phase.

He used an inline radiator hose filler like this one on the hose coming out of the motor:

That gave him a 'high' spot to fill the system from.

That truck has been cut up, and he now runs the radiator standing up behind the cab.

Here is a link to my build on our clubs website:
http://muddevils4x4.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708
 

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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
Thanks for the tips Pro. I never thought about using copper pipe. I don't have any way to braze, so I would have to solder if I went that route. Isn't copper house plumbing just soldered? I think typical water pressure in a house is 40-50 psi, but I could be wrong. If it is though, then soldering should be fine for an automotive cooling system that runs at 13-16psi.
I'm not sure what psi an automotive system is under, but to be honest, I would agree that carefully applied solder with the proper flux and you'd probably be fine.

That setup looks pretty slick, did he have something under the rad to keep rocks from getting kicked up into it?
 

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automotive systems are only as high as what your rad cap is rated for (actually a tad higher, but you get the point), ever see one pop off :).
 

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usually 13-17 psi
 

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You might also try one of these fillers -- work like magic on difficult to bleed systems:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=66765&group_ID=12500&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=72508&group_ID=12500&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Both use shop air to pull a vacuum on the entire cooling system (also a good test for leaks), then suck up the anti-freeze with no air bubbles. A great shop tool that a lot of guys never hear about.
 

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That setup looks pretty slick, did he have something under the rad to keep rocks from getting kicked up into it?
He had some kind of guard, but I don't remember. With those two fans it would get a little hot running down the road. They were wired as pushers and debris would fall down through the fan and collect inside the shrouds and inhibit air flow, so he switched to this Volvo fan he got for free and mounted it on the underside. Never had any trouble with rocks or anything. The Volvo fan controllers go bad under warranty, and they replace the whole unit at the dealer, but the fans are still good.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
automotive systems are only as high as what your rad cap is rated for (actually a tad higher, but you get the point), ever see one pop off :).
Doh! :smacks head: :homer:

I knew that :shaking: Got to stop posting late at night when tired and inebriated :D I think I've got a 14psi cap on mine.

Just an interesting note....when Ivan put a hella-bling high output electric water pump on his rear-mount radiator system he had some cooling problems. Why? Because the pump was moving the fluid SO fast it wasn't spending enough time in the radiator to cool down. He ended up having to install a valve that he'd have partially closed to slow down the flow......which instantly resulted in the cooling problems vanishing. Just thought I'd mention it since that was an unusual problem.
 

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Yeah its a fine balance with flow and pressure in the system, to fast is don't spend enough time in the rad to transfer the heat and to slow and its not transfering enough heat. I've noticed that some sbc guys running rear mount rads have over heating issues due the water pump they're using are handle the increased load from the extra fluid and the height they have to push it when mounted up high.
 

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A radiator cap has the potential to run the pressure that it is rated at, but under normal conditions it will run in the 15-20 psi range. They offer boil over protection (about 2 degrees per pound) above what they normally use. Which is why "race" motors will see 30+ psi caps for an added safety margin. It wouldnt hurt to run a higher cap as long as your rad is built to handle it.
 

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1-1/4-2" copper pipe soldered with 95/5 alloy tin solder should be good for about 400psi:D

Copper is hella exspensive over here though, the copper for my water main on my new house was around $900-1000(80-100ft of 2")
 

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My concern with copper and soldered fittings isn't with the pressure...it's with the vibrations. Solder doesn't make for a real strong mechanical connection. It does a fine job of sealing, but even with the tubing properly restrained there's going to be some movement. Couple that with the pressure and you might have a problem. The most movement pipes in a house see is a little water hammer usually. It's kind of like solid strand wire. It works great in a house where it is staples to beams that don't move, but there is a reason we use stranded stuff in automotive applications and it goes beyond the additional current carrying ability of stranded wire....
 

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Discussion Starter #59
My concern with copper and soldered fittings isn't with the pressure...it's with the vibrations. Solder doesn't make for a real strong mechanical connection. It does a fine job of sealing, but even with the tubing properly restrained there's going to be some movement.
You'll note I mentioned using soft "flex" points to absorb the movement/vibration. Anyof the guys here that have been wheeling with me will tell you I beat the holy everlivin' piss out of my truck......and I've had zero leaks or problems with the copper pipe in over five years. Thats a pretty good testimony....
 

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My concern with copper and soldered fittings isn't with the pressure...it's with the vibrations. Solder doesn't make for a real strong mechanical connection. It does a fine job of sealing, but even with the tubing properly restrained there's going to be some movement. Couple that with the pressure and you might have a problem. The most movement pipes in a house see is a little water hammer usually. It's kind of like solid strand wire. It works great in a house where it is staples to beams that don't move, but there is a reason we use stranded stuff in automotive applications and it goes beyond the additional current carrying ability of stranded wire....
With the right wire, you can tig copper.

Granted, it still kinda like a solder but its alot stronger.
 
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