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school me on anti-squat. i've built some 4-links that have had some really good manners, but want to be better.

i get what anti-squat is and i understand how to plug the values in to a 4 link calc. to raise and lower the number.

my question is, why do some guys like the number sky high, and some just aim for 100%? is it driving style, terrrain, huge torque engines......what?
 

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its because those 4 link calculators generally suck and are only as good as the info some one puts into them, i have seen 4 links where they say they have 120 anti suat and the damn thing squats badly i have also seen it the other way around
 

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FU2
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IMHO.... It bugs me to see that most people here seem to live and die by this supid "calc"... It would be fine if you were building a drag car or a road racer..BUT "we" here are not....

Look at ANY ONE of the top Rock crawling finishers and see what thier "numbers" are.... MOST of the rigs have an instant center is 1 to 3 Ft' off the front bumper...

I'm not going to sit here again and argue with a bunch of fags about how important this "calc" is...

True!You should know basic suspension layout,
but to try and base a rig off of something that has been pulled from road racing is just stupid... Again, MHO
 

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FU2
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Sorry, I didn't answer your question...

If your instant center, or the point at which the link would meet is further back toward your CG, the better it will crawl.. THAT is until you loose traction and the chassis drops... you will "load the chassis" better, but once it drops and gains traction again it starts this "bounce"...

Now if you move your IC out towards the front you will sit flatter... It doesn't "load the chassis" as well, but if you do slip it will sit FLAT....

It all depends on how and what you wheel... West, I would say slide it back a little... Out here, where you don't get gobs of traction slide it forward a little...

That all depends on "your" style of driving too... Hammer down= put it forward, Crawling= back it up....
 

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I agree, people shouldn't just treat the numbers like they are gold. Its more important to understand why they are important. Most of these parameters are important only under hard acceleration, which, like bender said, depends on you driving style, terrain, etc. It is more imporant to solve clearance and strenght issues than getting your anti-squat right. (My 2-cents)
 

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I feel all these calc's are great for road racing type suspensions. as for rock crawling all these numbers go out the window soon as you hit the trail. They may be good for a foundation but thats it.
 

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H M F
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What I wonder is if anybody that builds adjustment into their link mounts ever adjusts them and if they can tell a difference. My plan is to get used to the way my rear 4 link acts, and then change it and see what happens.
 

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desertfabmotorsports said:
I feel all these calc's are great for road racing type suspensions. as for rock crawling all these numbers go out the window soon as you hit the trail. They may be good for a foundation but thats it.
not nessasarily.

while I agree that if your are trying to set up your susp. by aiming at certain #'s on paper then yes its is not very "real"

but..if you have a built susp, and know hte #'s IT has, and want to change setup, using the calc as a REFERENCE and then seeign what changing your IC XX amount does ETC.. it does prove to be a good tool..

problem is though, by the time it gets to that point, your tweaking your suspension 2-3 times. and by that point it should be done anyways
 

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there are certain concepts that apply and some that don't, ie slip angles can be ignored for anything but road racing.
 

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how did you verify your results? And how can you even approximate slip angles when your on dirt.
 

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Im4yotas said:
What I wonder is if anybody that builds adjustment into their link mounts ever adjusts them and if they can tell a difference. My plan is to get used to the way my rear 4 link acts, and then change it and see what happens.
nope, well not in my case anyway.... lol.... I spent HOURS upon HOURS making my uppers adjustable so I could play with antisquat, but I have yet to adjust them. Right now they are set to give me the most A.S. possible, and I have noticed some "bounce", but only while towing people up hills. I'll make sure to adjust them this year and report if anyone cares.
 

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What strikes me as funny is all the people who are going off the link calculator, trying to get as close to their "ideal" number as possible, that are just guessing where their COG is.
 

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Tin Bender said:
Sorry, I didn't answer your question...

If your instant center, or the point at which the link would meet is further back toward your CG, the better it will crawl.. THAT is until you loose traction and the chassis drops... you will "load the chassis" better, but once it drops and gains traction again it starts this "bounce"...

Now if you move your IC out towards the front you will sit flatter... It doesn't "load the chassis" as well, but if you do slip it will sit FLAT....

It all depends on how and what you wheel... West, I would say slide it back a little... Out here, where you don't get gobs of traction slide it forward a little...

That all depends on "your" style of driving too... Hammer down= put it forward, Crawling= back it up....
WELL SAID! About the best I have heard!! I play mostly on the East Coast and hammer down is where I stay most of the time so I don't like the "bouncing". Most people if they stay in the sport awhile will see their own stuff evolve towards their style.

I love it in some of the comps where you see guys down to the wire and it becomes hammer time... I still have vivid memories of Rusty Bray in Portland going into 3rd gear against what sounded like the rev limiter coming out of a "tub"... It set flat and no bounce. Yea, he was one of very few who made it out. Then I saw a lot of rigs bounce around under full throttle assualts and flip.
 

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jpmassey said:
Well, I developed a vehicle simulator for my thesis that uses slip angles, it is valid down to about .5 m/s. (not that this adds anything to the current discussion)
Completely unrealistic on any terrain other than that where the Calspan data was acquired. And the lower limit on velocity for the validity of a slip angle model depends on the magnitude of the slip angle. You can't just generalize that its good down to 0.5m/s.

But none of that is of any use or any validity off road.
 

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so its my first time building a 3link, ive read alot about the calculators and used one to give me a "mock up" design. the mock up gave a AntiSquat of about 110%. what is confusing me is that i read everything from the calc is god to the calc doesnt help. i realize the calcs are only as accurate as the person who made them. should I use the calc as a "base" design then jsut fit it to meet my needs? or should i try and stick as close to the calc as possible?
 

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Hosejockey said:
its because those 4 link calculators generally suck and are only as good as the info some one puts into them, i have seen 4 links where they say they have 120 anti suat and the damn thing squats badly i have also seen it the other way around
All you guys saying calc's suck and this and that i ask you this, how did you design you suspension set up?? Pen and paper, or did you just put them where they fit and hope for the best??? If its pen and paper then how is it anny differnt then using the calculator if its the latter then hats off to you, i know i wouldnt want to put annything on my rig or someone elses rig without having some idea of how it will perform.....As for rigs with 120% AS squating, theres a simple answer for that and it is called weight transfer, wich has little if annything to do with AS...As for the other way around i have yet to see anny rig with 100% or less AS act like you say you have....
 
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