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Discussion Starter #1
my Control arm bolts won't stay tight for more than a day on the rocks.

I used Blue loctite and torqued to 130, but they still work loose.

The heads on the bolts are getting worn so I was going to replace the bolts and m and though of using two nuts on the bolt.

am I just wasting my time with longer bolts and double nuts or should I just use Red Loctite and see if this will hold them or am I just expecting too much wanting these bolts to stay tight? I don't usually like to use red because I end up tearing the crap out of the bolt getting it off.

- Dan

ps: sorry this isn't all that hardPOR but its all I need to know today <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
 

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Both.
Have you tried a self locking nut like a pinchnut not a nylock.
 

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A self locker is not the best choice here because it is subject to rotational movement. I would suggest you use castleated nuts and drill the bolts to accept a cotter pin.

DUG
 

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I thought they came with the pinchnuts stock. Did you change them Dan? I also thought Nylocks would hold up.
 

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They do come stock with pinch nuts, and mine have held fine. They are not subject to any "rotational movement". Castle nuts and cotters will do nothing to maintain the 130 ft/lbs specified.

If your are continually loosening, Dan, go ahead and replace them with new parts. Loktite can't hurt, but you shouldn't need it if you get pinch nuts.

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'm still using the stock bolts and stock pinch nuts and these are the ones getting loose.

Some of the bolts got replaced with the lift, but these seem to be doing OK.

I'll clean the blue Loctite off and try red and give them another chance.

thanks,

- Dan
 

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Originally posted by nasvik:
<STRONG>They do come stock with pinch nuts, and mine have held fine. They are not subject to any "rotational movement". Castle nuts and cotters will do nothing to maintain the 130 ft/lbs specified.

Paul</STRONG>
Really? Then what would you call the movement of the control arm end around the axis of the bolt in the center? Arms using rod ends or Johny-joints do not have this problem unless the bearing has siezed but solid end ones can. The sleeve drags the bolt around and if the nut is stuck or wedged or tight it can loosen up the bolt. This also applys to spring and shackle bolts on a leaf spring rig and steering components on a rig with rod ends insteas of TREs.

Cotter pins wil hold 130lbs torque if the correct pin is used for the aplication. However, with a well made braket (un-like the stock jeep ones) and a good fit on the arm you should not need that much torque on the control arm nut and a cotter pin would more then hold the nut on. The real point of all that torque is to squeeze the braket in so the arm can not have any lateral movement on the bolt and to keep the nut from bacing itself off. the idea there is that with that much clamping force the sleeve will never sieze on the bolt....great idea on the drawing board but how many of you have had a bolt rust solid or sieze in a spring or control arm eye? When this happens either the control arm has to stop

rotating on the bolt or the bolt will have to rotate in the mount.

The down side to the low torque/cotter pin metod and the down side to when the bolt siezes in the sleeve and turns is that unless you have a strong mount the bolt will start to work on the mount and itself leading to a oversize hole and a under size bolt. All of this will lead to clunking and breaking.

Don't even start me on how mad those oblong hole, cam adjusters are.....

Moral of the story: none! No matter what you do something will wear or try to come loose. Reefed down real tight a pinch nut should hold on to the bolt, a ny-lock is OK to but has a higher chance of failure.
 

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DUH!

I fergot, the origional idea you had of double nutting the bolts is probably the most secure way to get them to stay.
 

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His Jeep has a RE long arm kit. The bolt in question is fastening a "Johnny Joint" type of end, not the typical bushing. FYI
 

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Originally posted by orbitcat:
<STRONG>His Jeep has a RE long arm kit. The bolt in question is fastening a "Johnny Joint" type of end, not the typical bushing. FYI</STRONG>
OH, well then just ignore me <IMG SRC="smilies/blush2.gif" border="0">

With a Johny joint tyoe deal in there you really should not have that kind of a problem as long as the bolts are reefed on good and holding the ball good and solid in the mount.

If it is only an issue at the Johny jointed end you can solvi it buy buying some 10 cent lock washers at the hardware store.
 

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Psst... DUG... This is the POR BBS. We don't talk stock applications here. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> I know very well what lift Dan-H has - I helped install it, and I have the same one. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Paul
 

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If they are the same nuts and bolts then throw them out and get new ones. A pinch nut only works good a few times at best and they put the hurt on the threads on the bolt so just change them both.
 

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PSSST....Some after market arms have stock style bushings in them.....
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hmmm. Pauls don't get loose and he runs bead locked 38s and Mine do with puny 35s <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0"> I know, I must wheel harder than Paul <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0">

Or maybe my old arms are too weak to torque 130 ft pounds <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

anyway, the bolts getting loose most often are the front lower at the axle and the the long arm at the belly skid. At the axle its a bushing joint and at the skid its a johhny joint.

I'm gonna try loctite red for the next trip and if that doesn't work I'll just get new bolts.
 

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Sounds to me like the bolts &/or the pinch nuts are worn beyond thier locking limit. Get new ones & that should stop the problem.
 

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Originally posted by 66CJdean:
<STRONG>If they are the same nuts and bolts then throw them out and get new ones. A pinch nut only works good a few times at best and they put the hurt on the threads on the bolt so just change them both.</STRONG>
ding ding ding we have a winner!!! pinch nuts along with nylock and a few other types of licking nuts are only designed to be used once!!! get some new crap and through some locktight on it. Also remember if you use lock tight and the bolt comes loose or you want to just tighten it a little more you have to take the nut off and clean all the threads and reapply the threadlock.
 

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Since this is related, I'm going to post this as a reply here.

I noticed that the nuts on my control arms were constantly coming loose also. Also saw the others in my group, especially those with long-arm kits having the same problem. Now, for clarity, I am not running a long-arm kit, but just the plain RE arms with johnny joints at one end and the rubber bushings at the other.

I have my arms mounted where the johnny joint end is at the axle end. The rubber bushing is in the end at the frame. The frame end is the end that keeps coming loose.

Well, all this is leading up to a totally different question I think, but they could be related. I was doing some work on my front end this weekend (refer back to the TJ warning post) and noticed that I had the bolts so tight at the frame side that there was no way they could move on the bolt. In other words, all the flex was being handled by the rubber bushing, not the movement of the bushing sleeve on the bolt.

I'm wanting to get some feedback on what you all think the proper way of mounting these would be. What I did was loosen them back off, locktite the nuts, then torque them just enough to hold in place, but still allow movement up and down. I'm sure the bushings will live longer and the Jeep will probably travel better, but with it in this configuration I get a lot of noise from the arms shifting back and forth on the bolts. Noise doesn't bother me, but the damage this might cause does.

Thoughts?
 

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I'm running RE lowers (shorties) with the rubber mounts at the frame end. I'm still using the factory supplied hardware (have removed it and reinstalled it maybe 3 or 4 times) with no loosening problems whatsoever.

Torque? Schmorque!

I've always just run them down with an impact and let it hammer on 'em for a second.

I am aware that the pinchnuts do have an expected life, as do ny-locks. The only true "permanent" solution for loosening would be like DUG said, pinning or safety wiring.

I have also had good luck with the UCA bolts I have replaced (ho-made adjusters) by using plain ole' lock washers and ny-locks in conjunction with eachother. ... so far, so good ...

cm "got no job, will wrench" k
 

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.. by the way ...

RE's joints are not called "johnny Joints." I once received a "polite ass chewing" from a dude at RE when I called them that. They prefer to call them by their generic name of "spherical bearings." Currie must have trademarked the term "johnny joint."

cm "just a little useless FYI for ya'" k
 

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Discussion Starter #20
TornadoTJ said:
I have my arms mounted where the johnny joint end is at the axle end. The rubber bushing is in the end at the frame. The frame end is the end that keeps coming loose.
Arms installed backwards???

I thought the JJoint ( I don't give a crap what R/E calls it) goes to the Frame side on all of their lifts.

Not certain.
 
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