Pirate 4x4 banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,214 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have aquired a 2.5 ton Rockwell rear and am in the process of redoing it. I will be aquiring a front in the near future once this one is ready to roll.

I have done quite a bit of searching and got most of my help from here:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=313836

The only problem is, nearly all of the pictures and 1/3 of the info is missing from the thread. I have some questions that I am having trouble finding answers to.

I will be running this pinion brake setup:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rockwell-2-...&otn=5&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=5167722050958112459

So I have that part covered. My questions are as follows:

1: I will be doing a tear down and rebuild as this axle has spent the last decade in the woods and has the typical leaks, slack, etc. Does anyone have any pictures, and/or a step by step on how to do this? I remember seeing the info on USA6x6 but they are long since gone. I have quite a bit of axle experience but this is my first rock.

2: I will be making my own wheels by cutting the centers out of the factory 20" rockwell wheels, machining them down and welding them into my 15" beadlocks. Does anyone have any pictures, tech, etc. on this process? I know the basics but am curious which weld method (stich or solid) to use and also if it would be better to run the axle hubs out with about 9 inches of wheel backspace or run it hubs in with 3.5" of backspace. I realize I will have the same overall result as far as tire width but am curious if one way is better than the other and why. I am leaning toward leaving the hubs out and doing the 9 inches of backspace.

3: When I removed the old bracketry from this axle (it had a homemade coil bucket, four link setup) I discovered the axle tube is plated with 3/8" flat bar from the drum brake mount inward about 12 inches. :confused: The lower link was on said plate. The only reason I can think for doing this is to reinforce the axle tube to keep it from bending. Has anyone ever bent one? These things look BEEFY to me and the bracket's I am buying will not fit over the tube with these plates installed.

Thanks for any help I recieve here as I have spent a great deal of time searching and am sure others could benefit from this info as well.

Derek
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,251 Posts
My 5 ton rockwell thread has a link to a military library thing that will have the manuials for the 2.5 tons as well. Best source anywhere for tear down and rebuiild info. Link was in Rippers thread somewhere too.

If you flip the hubs in and run more like a 3 or 4 " backspace if you change wheels down the road you'd have a more readily available wheel compared to an oddball with a real large backspace, and it will protect the lugnuts better.(my .02), but as a general rule guys stitch weld the centers. I've never seena factory fully welded center, something about having a break in case a weld cracks it will only travel until the gap.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,578 Posts
That's my pinion brake setup, good choice! :) You can get it cheaper on my website though. www.patparts.com. Let me know if you have any questions about it.

The only thing I can tell you about #1 is to go to a parts store and order the special socket for the spindle nuts. It's an 8-point. (I forget size.) O'Reilly ordered me one for about $30 IIRC and it is 3/4" drive, so if you want to use a 1/2 impact or ratchet make sure to get a reducer.

#3, I've never heard of anyone bending a stock housing. They are 1/2 wall and amazingly tuff. I have no idea why someone would plate it but you don't need to.

J. J.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,214 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
My 5 ton rockwell thread has a link to a military library thing that will have the manuials for the 2.5 tons as well. Best source anywhere for tear down and rebuiild info. Link was in Rippers thread somewhere too.

If you flip the hubs in and run more like a 3 or 4 " backspace if you change wheels down the road you'd have a more readily available wheel compared to an oddball with a real large backspace, and it will protect the lugnuts better.(my .02), but as a general rule guys stitch weld the centers. I've never seena factory fully welded center, something about having a break in case a weld cracks it will only travel until the gap.
That's my pinion brake setup, good choice! :) You can get it cheaper on my website though. www.patparts.com. Let me know if you have any questions about it.

The only thing I can tell you about #1 is to go to a parts store and order the special socket for the spindle nuts. It's an 8-point. (I forget size.) O'Reilly ordered me one for about $30 IIRC and it is 3/4" drive, so if you want to use a 1/2 impact or ratchet make sure to get a reducer.

#3, I've never heard of anyone bending a stock housing. They are 1/2 wall and amazingly tuff. I have no idea why someone would plate it but you don't need to.

J. J.
A good, cheap, quick source for your soft parts will be Tom at CSI in Atl. 770-445-0455

J. J.


This is all great info!

I never expected responses so quickly, MUCH appreciated :grinpimp:

Pat, I am glad to hear the tubes are tough, I will cut those fugly plates off there. I was thinking the same thing but wanted to be sure they weren't reccomended before I cut them off.

I will get with the parts store about the spindle nut socket as well. Once I get into the tear down I will give Tom as CSI a call. This should be a great winter project, looking forward to it.

Thanks guys!

Derek
 

·
Gravity Works!
Joined
·
30,943 Posts
check the gears in the turd before you get to far with it. If the gears are in bad shape you would be better off finding another rear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,781 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,578 Posts
That's what I thought too from all my reading on the subject. Steve Gerstner tends to disagree as shown in the following post where he straitens a rock housing. Bout post 29 or so in the thread.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=419269&highlight=
He doesn't know how it got bent. For all he knows the truck ran over a land mine.

As a rock crawler, if you're bending rock housings, nothing will ever hold up for you. You don't need to truss or reinforce a rockwell housing.

J. J.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,214 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
check the gears in the turd before you get to far with it. If the gears are in bad shape you would be better off finding another rear.
It turns freely, but I will find out for sure on teardown. 3rd member's are not hard to come by around these parts so even if it's toast it won't be a total loss. It came out of a running truck, he just wanted rear steer so it should be fine.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,214 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Just an update on this, everything inside the housing looked GREAT :smokin:

It is bare and at sandblast as we speak. Once I get it back I will begin putting it back together. One thing I noticed on teardown is the pinion shaft had about 1/8" of back and forth (not up and down but in and out of the housing). I noticed that each of the pinion retainer plates have shims behind them. I would assume I can take this slack up by removing shims which would decrease the distance and tighten up the pre load on the bearings.

Anyone have any suggestions as to how much or which side to "de shim" :confused: I would assume I want to make the ring and pinion tighter rather than looser, is this correct?

For reference, all the bearings looked great in this thing so this will be put back together as it was except I am putting all new seals.

Derek
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,723 Posts
Just an update on this, everything inside the housing looked GREAT :smokin:

It is bare and at sandblast as we speak. Once I get it back I will begin putting it back together. One thing I noticed on teardown is the pinion shaft had about 1/8" of back and forth (not up and down but in and out of the housing). I noticed that each of the pinion retainer plates have shims behind them. I would assume I can take this slack up by removing shims which would decrease the distance and tighten up the pre load on the bearings.

Anyone have any suggestions as to how much or which side to "de shim" :confused: I would assume I want to make the ring and pinion tighter rather than looser, is this correct?

For reference, all the bearings looked great in this thing so this will be put back together as it was except I am putting all new seals.

Derek

i'd run it with only 1/8" ... it's a rockwell, they're tough. :D

the slack is from wear on the the pinion bearings. i'd remove some shims from each side and check again. pull the top cover and check out the ring & pinon. move shims if needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,756 Posts
Call Boyce Equipment and ask for a 2 1/2 ton manual. It will have everything you need to know about the Rockwells. I order my parts from them and they usually toss one in free if you ask.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,214 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Call Boyce Equipment and ask for a 2 1/2 ton manual. It will have everything you need to know about the Rockwells. I order my parts from them and they usually toss one in free if you ask.
Just ordered my manual with Dallas over at Boyce, best $15.00 I've spent in a while :smokin:

Derek
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,214 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Also, just purchased Pat's pinion brake kit :smokin:

I'm headed over to Summit to get the rotor for it. A 12" rotor for pinion brakes is HUGE :eek: :grinpimp:

Assembly will be happening soon, just waiting on the sandblasters.

Derek
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
Blake at Red River is a good source for parts to he is usually the cheapest.
(930) 547-2226
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,207 Posts
Mr. Gerstner is suggesting that welding bracket's on the housing is what bent it? :shaking: If a 200 amp mig welding 4 link bracket's on will bend that axle 7/8 of an inch then I'm a :mr-t: jet pilot. Anyone wanna ride in a jet with me? :grinpimp:
Steve has documented on this site the affects of welding brackets to the deuce housing. 7/8" is not out of the question. Here is the thread. I'll take the ride on the jet plane.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,214 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Axle is assembled :grinpimp:

Sitting the diff back in the housing was a back breaker but it's in there. I am gonna weld a couple brackets on and then throw some paint at this guy and we'll be ready to rock (pun intended) :grinpimp:

Derek
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,478 Posts
I will try to resist from saying your ignorant.. But Steve builds these things everyday, has put out alot of info about rocks for all of us over the years.. And if you search, you will see alot of people warping their axles (not just rockwells) from welding on them.

So I don't think he was posting that info the be a bunch of BS.

Doesn't seem to matter to you one way or another anyways, so do what you want. Just saying..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,214 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
I will try to resist from saying your ignorant.. But Steve builds these things everyday, has put out alot of info about rocks for all of us over the years.. And if you search, you will see alot of people warping their axles (not just rockwells) from welding on them.

So I don't think he was posting that info the be a bunch of BS.

Doesn't seem to matter to you one way or another anyways, so do what you want. Just saying..
I'm tired of arguing and it's clogging a thread that could help others in the future. I have the equipment to check the housing as well and have never witnessed this phenomenon of an axle housing bowing 1/8" for every bracket (or all brackets) that get welded onto it nor do I see how it's possible but hey, I'll be the bigger man and edit my posts in the sake of tech.

Derek
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top