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UGET IT said:
Write Letters
Attend FOTR Cleanups and functions (Member)
Attend and contribute to the RTF (Director)
Work with the FS and County..........(regretible sometimes)
Educate folks on the trail
Keep my Club informed
Stay on the trail
Whatever is required through the process...All of the above....................(Sometimes not what I like but I'll do it)
I started wheeling in 98 when I bought my TJ. Prior to that an 85 Toyota exracab and 61 Scout were just transportation to hunting and fishing locations. I hate to say it but I am a late comer in the campaign to keep our trails open.

I recently started caring enough to write emails and letters. I don't feel that I always have the best grasp of what the current crisis or issue is but I do my best. I do what I can to motivate others in my club. I even bring up trail closures ect with just about anybody that will listen. I recently joined BRC and FOTR though I'm lost as to what RTF is.

Maybe I'm wrong but it still seems unrealistic to manage a trail for a certain "vehicle standard". I'm guessing that measureable data is what drives decisions. How much erossion, loss of vegetation, sedimentary runoff, widening/expansion of an existing trail, number and type of user groups to name some.

Maintaining the trail at it's current level while making repairs to problem areas seems like a more attainable goal. Currently the trail is passable by any number of vehicle/driver characteristics which in effect "is" a vehicle standard just with a different name.

It seems that regulation of our own(educating folks on the trail) is becoming more and more effective. I just wish more people were to make themselves heard by the various governing agencies.

Trying to be active
Robert Lightfoot
Dixon, Ca
 

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Obviously, the Rubicon trail is no longer an "unmaintained" county road. With that said, as much as I hate to say it. I can see that a "maintenance standard" for the trail is needed. If one is not defined by the majority or the representatives of the users, the county will make that determination. Do we really want to leave that decision solely up to the county? I say NO!

I agree that the trail should be maintained as little as possible. And, when done so, made passible by a SWB vehicle with 33's & a locker. Other than that, run what ya brung!
 

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Kevin, we’re all frustrated here and that’s why the discussion gets so hot. I didn’t mean to imply you’re working for the county only that comments like you made can be misinterpreted and sound that way. I just wonder when things will stop. I was a long time dirt rider and I’m a Life Member of the AMA. I saw over and over how we gave little concessions in the belief that it would win us continued access and help the big picture but it didn’t. In the end we just continued to lose ground. I fear the opposition has manipulated us right where they want us when information (blasting) is withheld and threads are deleted for whatever reason. These people are pretty good at fooling us and making fools of us.
I agree with you that a comfortable rig is great for camping trips and I would love to be able to have one, as well as a more hardcore rig for the tougher stuff but I can’t afford to have both (or pay for the divorce!) I would just like to be able to make the choice, if I could, because I wanted to and not because I had to.
Were were there at Buck last weekend. We just got there too late for the food because we were wheelin’! Even though we missed it thanks for putting on what I understand was a great feed.
So I will continue to fight for our rights, attend as many meetings as I can (even though it’s a 4 hour drive to do so in most cases,) and send my money to the BRC (yes, I’m a member as are all of Four Dice’s members.) In addition to helping out with the Rubicon, I will also continue our work on our adopted trail, Fordyce.

Bret Preble (aka Tinman)
VP Four Dice Four Wheel Drive Club
Land Use Officer and Forest Service Liason
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Bret, I hear you. Concessions along the way SUCK, but from watching the process for five years (no expert!), I believe that concessions are rarely volunteered, or 'given' in any way... they are DEMANDED.

As crazy as it sounds, this system-roads-and-trails-only restriction we're currently under is actually a middle ground! The Forest Supervisor put forward three alternatives to Judge Karlton: no change, system-roads-and-trails-only, and everything closed. If not for the compromise, we'd be entirely shot down! :( I'm not happy with the compromise, but full closure would have SUCKED!

The overall direction is losing ground -- not because of the concessions, but because the greenies and anti-access folks have quite a head-start. That anti-access head-start causes the concessions, not the other way around, and we've gotta KEEP fighting to try to reverse the tide. The national Final Rule is the first thing I've seen coming from Washington that gives me real hope that it is working.

Keep up the good fight.

Randii
 

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Right on Brotha! We did have a great time and your Club is always welcome to hagn out with the POR. I did see you boys roll by in the afternoon or evening.

Have a great T-Day.
 

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Thanks guys. Gotta keep fighting where ever we can. You have a good Thanksgiving too. I will, at least on Thursday, Gotta work Friday through Sunday. Sucks, but double bubble baby!:p
 

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Thanks guys. Gotta keep fighting where ever we can. You have a good Thanksgiving too. I will, at least on Thursday, Gotta work Friday through Sunday. Sucks, but double bubble baby!:p
 

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I thought of the perfect Standard Rig.

The Sheriff’s XJ!

Most people (me included) keep asking for more law enforcement to help keep the peace up on the Rubicon. Well, the LEO’s need to get up there and they need to be able to drive out there on the quads and in the XJ.

If they are risking breakage/damage of the XJ, then the obstacle is too difficult.

That seems like a reasonable quantifiable base line.

The truth is that it will be a short wheel base rig (say a TJ) on 32’s with lockers. That will remain true until the people from Jeep and from the different Jamboree organizations give up on the Rubicon. If those people can no longer use the Rubicon to market their product, because the trail is too difficult, then they will close up shop and move on.

Before you say good, you should know that with out the land owners support the clock will start ticking and we will lose the trail.
 

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Friggin Awesome Idea

MellowYellow said:
I thought of the perfect Standard Rig.

The Sheriff’s XJ!

Most people (me included) keep asking for more law enforcement to help keep the peace up on the Rubicon. Well, the LEO’s need to get up there and they need to be able to drive out there on the quads and in the XJ.

If they are risking breakage/damage of the XJ, then the obstacle is too difficult.

That seems like a reasonable quantifiable base line.
I would be totally content with this. Seems to make a perfect middle ground.
 

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Seems like an acceptable standard to me too. I've always been of the belief that the quickest way to curb a lot of the problems on the trail would be for one person who is DUI to get caught, arrested, and have his vehicle "towed", of course from LS a chopper is the only way to "tow" a vehicle out. The cost to get their rig out of impound would be astronomical, and as a result the word would spread like wildfire that the Sheriff's office is all done being Mr nice guy, and that they mean business.
 

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Why "tow" it out , It would strike more fear into my heart if they pulled it off to the side of the trail and left it
 

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Why not post recommended wheelbase vs minimum tire size and crawling ratios, etc at entrances. This may deter ill prepared rigs from slowing traffic flow which cause congestion on the trail.
 

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Excellent idea rocksalt. More signage is planned for the Kiosk and Spillway area.


Education is the best solution.




.
 

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rocksalt said:
Why not post recommended wheelbase vs minimum tire size and crawling ratios, etc at entrances. This may deter ill prepared rigs from slowing traffic flow which cause congestion on the trail.
The only problem I see with signage like this, is it would be too easy for the county to say these are laws/rules, and not suggestions. If we give them real numbers, they can make them into laws/rules. We don't want laws/rules like that. And laws/rules like that at the Rubicon will quickly spread to laws/rules like that everywhere. We need to find a way to settle this using general terms, not real numbers. Just what I'm thinking.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Trailer Guy said:
The only problem I see with signage like this, is it would be too easy for the county to say these are laws/rules, and not suggestions. ... We need to find a way to settle this using general terms, not real numbers.
I agree that this is a concern, which is why we need to get out in front of this with a general maintenance standard that specifically excludes minimums or maximums.

Vehicle width limits have already been discussed in the ROC, with no firm consensus. Each time someone suggests enforcing a maximum, I ask how this would be enforced -- and ask if that doesn't open the door to minimums, as well? It seems that most of the older folks pushing maximums don't want to mandate minimums, and most of the younger folks pushing minimums don't want to mandate maximums. I challenge each of you to read that again and see if it doesn't describe you, and how we are polarized against each other within our own hobby.

A maintenanace standard might be a way to bridge this gap.

Randii
 

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This is an excellent thread...Much discussion...clearing the air and in the process I think people are beginning to understand better what FOTR is up against with the county. I'm sure Randii is wearing down fast as the new moderator. Randii keep up the good communication!!

My standard is 33's with a locker, but Sluice should be 35's with lockers...why...that's what I have...:p Seriously...sluice should be very tough for 33's a locker and a good driver. Expect damage kind of thing.

Another comment..."If you want to challenge yourself in an extreme rig...go to Johnson Valley." JoshC was I think shocked by this comment....correct me if I'm wrong...and I think many others would have been too.

Reality check:

The players are...County, FS, FOTR, private land owners, environmentalist and fish and game.

Honestly, not one of the above is even slightly fighting for Extreme rigs. Randii is the only real voice defending this cause and he is out numbered within FOTR and FOTR leadership. If you want to have this change, first start by speaking up on the FOTR email list. You have to get FOTR to move in your direction first. Be constructive...provide alternatives etc. Then go to the ROC meetings...if you can't make it find someone that can for you. Then and only then might the County lean in your direction. You might be able to plant idea's like developing an area for extreme wheeling. You might keep them from shutting out Green Stickers. You might get them to crack and split rocks in Sluice rather than make gravel out of them. In short, you might have a voice that virtually doesn't exist now. But this is for sure, unless you do something, you should expect the current pattern to continue.
 

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NOTPRETTY said:
Another comment..."If you want to challenge yourself in an extreme rig...go to Johnson Valley." JoshC was I think shocked by this comment....correct me if I'm wrong...and I think many others would have been too.

Reality check:

I am really trying to leave this stuff alone Marlon...

LOL... I spent 15 minutes searching for my actual quote so I could see what I actually said (I said a lot in the heat of the moment ;) ). EDIT: But I couldn't find it.

Anyway, I'm not shocked with the thought of going elsewhere when I want to get my "get it" on. I really don't have a problem with that. Really. I've only been in LS two or three times as a matter of fact. I'm usually up there with my family and friends wheeling in, camping, taking pictures, etc. I just don't want to be kept off the trail because someone mistook my overbuilt rig as a part of "the problem".

I want to see the Rubicon preserved at it's current state as much as possible. I think we have been making a ton of progress in maintaining the trail, progress blocking bypasses, progress keeping the place clean, and progress in the way of educating trail users. I'd prefer that we left LS alone but I understand "why" and am watching some good ideas on "how" it's future is going to change.

I also understand who the stakeholders are and try to understand what there concerns are with regards to the tril they love just as sincerly. I have no desire to see the Rubicon turned into a 4x4 park or whatever. Please don't misunderstand me. I am scared because the way I read the RTMP it is going to be a 4x4 park in the near future.

I bet... The trail will be open thankfully, but it will be a very different trail as you pointed out, access will be limited to those who's rigs fit the standards, access will also be limited to once? twice per year per vehicle? Unless you want to buy a season pass. It will be plastered with signes and led by tour guides.
 

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NOTPRETTY said:
Randii is the only real voice defending this cause and he is out numbered within FOTR and FOTR leadership. continue.

Furthermore :D

I wouldn't use the term "fighting for extreme rigs", but I do think that Randy, Scott and Del are nowhere near an oppinion that anybody should be excluded from the trail except irresponsible, il prepared, jerkoffs.

I applaud Del for adding Randii to the team here on PBB and appreciate the opportunity to be heard.

EDIT: Took out 1st smart a$$ comment.
 

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JoshC said:
Doug is the only guy that I'm pretty confident would prefer that I am never able to bring my family out to enjoy the trail in my current rig.
Don't forget me... I don't think you should take your family in either. You really should finish putting in the back seat(s) first. :p

Ok, I wanted to laugh first, but really Josh, I think you (or your family w/ rig) are the baby in the bath water. I KNOW, and I think most people including Doug, know that it is not the rig, but the riders that are the problem. I also KNOW that you are part of the solution not the problem.

Maybe some have been guilty of rIGial profiling.

I’m confident we’ll find some middle ground.

A question to most of the buggy guys out there, if (when) the box gets blasted/cracked/rolled/paved, will you continue to make the trailer ride to the Rubicon? (should this question be in another thread?)
 

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I too would like to see all types of rigs allowed on the trail. I'd like to see all big and small rigs drive responsibly too. The reality is some of each don't. But I would have to say a larger rig driven by a jerkoff is capable of significanlty more damage...yes more than a small one. This is why the off-road community needs to come down hard on jerkoff's of all kind. They are threatening the trail.

Somebody said on one of these threads recently, that we are really dealing with a volume issue not a type of vehicle problem. I would have to agree in part. In my mind it is equally a volume/a$$hats problem which is causing the rapid degrading on the trail. Volume has come down in the past years, but it is still degrading. If we accept the fact that volume is part of the problem, there are two solutions...less volume or active management of the trail to deal with the volume. This is a main reason we need an RTMP. Without it the other option is to continue to make people want to leave the trail or set limits.
 
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