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Discussion Starter #1
OK I have found a deal for a friend on a sami.

Our question is:

All we know is that the guy tells us it needs a new timing gear.

What all is involved and what can we expect?

Is there a chain as well?

Bent valvs?
Why do the gears break/go bad?
 

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twisted intentions said:
Do not have any of those!
Get something (service manual)..........Your gonna need it :eek:








Welcome ya NooBee :flipoff2:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
just trying to figure out how bad it could be.

100.00 fix or more.

He is looking to build a cheap trail rig.

Would something like that cause the motor to go?
 

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twisted intentions said:
OK I have found a deal for a friend on a sami.

Our question is:

All we know is that the guy tells us it needs a new timing gear.

What all is involved and what can we expect?

Is there a chain as well?

Bent valvs?
Why do the gears break/go bad?
There is no chain, only a timing belt. Yes, the belt could break and take out the valves, pistons, head, etc. Quick removal of the timing belt cover would tell you alot.
 

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terrymac said:
There is no chain, only a timing belt. Yes, the belt could break and take out the valves, pistons, head, etc. Quick removal of the timing belt cover would tell you alot.

never seen or had one(lost one at about 70 mph on I-10) do that,was told suzuki is not one of those vehicals that does that. :confused: don't know for sure?
about 20 bucks for belt and a couple of hours.
have fun
AZ :p
 

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the suzuki 1300 8v engine is not an interferance engine and will not bend valves if the t-belt breaks. if the belt breaks simply reset the crank/cam timing and install new belt.

t-belts can be bought for as cheap as $13.

the problem might not be the timing sprocket gear but rather it could be the crank keyway could be all wollowed out. this can be fixed by tig welding the wollowed out key slot in the crank and recutting the slot. cheap bastard back woods way would be to weld the sprocket right to the crank but not recomended.

best way to find out what is wrong is to take off the timing cover and start snoopin.
 

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All we know is that the guy tells us it needs a new timing gear.

You didn't tell us what engine you're dealing with. The 1.3 and 1.6 engines are designed with a timing belt system. The 1.8 engine is equiped with a timing chain. But in either case, the timing gear is keyed to the shaft.

What all is involved and what can we expect?

That's gonna depend upon whether you're dealing with a belt or chain system.
I'd suggest obtaining a manual (from your local auto parts store for under twenty bucks) that addresses the specific engine in the vehicle, and reading the section dealing with its timing belt/chain removal and installation. Once you know how to remove and install it, you'll be better equiped to recognize what's actually wrong. And don't hesitate to remove the rocker arm cover to see if the cam is functioning as it should. If the cam froze up it'd take out the timing gear; at least.


Is there a chain as well?

Maybe, maybe not. It'll depend on which engine is in the vehicle.

Bent valvs?

You should be able to check this out by simply removing the rocker arm cover and checking the valve train.

Why do the gears break/go bad?

There's no single answer to this question. Anything causing interference with the rotation of the gear can damage it (and or other associated component parts) in a number of ways.

:idea: In our area, there are a few local mechanics who hire themselves out by the hour for a flat rate consulting fee. Maybe you could find one in your neighborhood that'd check it out for you.
 

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Also, the cam can seize and cause the timing belt to snap. Pay you to lift the cover and eyeball the cam etc. as well as the front sprockets.
Paul.
 

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twisted intentions said:
.......
Why do the gears break/go bad?
Like everyone has already told you, no timing gears, or chain/sprockets in the Zuki engine. Just a Timing Belt and Sprockets.

Timing GEARS rarely go bad, and are not a common way to time a valve train. some engines still have them, both automotive, industrial, and in motorcycles.

Timing CHAINs and SPROCKETS wear. Specificaly the Sprocket. On most modern engines, the sprockets are steel with Nylon teeth, to help reduce mechanicle engine noise.
The Chain just wears them down, even if the teeth are steel. These are ALWAYS replaced as a set (chain and 2 sprockets)

Timing BELTS and SPROCKETS dont 'WEAR' more than the belt fatigues from the heat and flexing. The belt is a Toothed variety and the teeth tend to sheer off as they pass the crank spocket. The belts do actually break, but its not that common. The sprockets can wear, especially if they get dirt/mud/sand into them. the keyways can also wallow out as was suggested above. Manufacturers like the Belt/Sprocket for its cost, wieght savings, and noise reduction, and since the middle 1980's most everyone using belts on thier engines have redesigned the engines to be of the Non-Interference variety. Due to the warrenty costs and bad press recieved.

I hope that helps you understand a bit how this item wears out.

as for your problems, get yourself a good repair manual (you cant beat the Factory one) and read it thrue (yes boring I know, but nessesary).
then pull the timing cover the #1 cylinder plug, and set your timng marks and see if its still timed. if not tear into it (pull the belt and the sprockets) inspect the sprockets(RR them if nessesary) and replace the belt. follow the procedures outlined in the repair manual carfully and all should go well.

if you find anything Serriously wrong when you pull the timeing cover (broken belt) look for the cause befor continuing.


Overall after you have done this a few times, you can retime the engine in under a half hour/ It really is simple.

good luck
 

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azrocktrash said:
never seen or had one(lost one at about 70 mph on I-10) do that,was told suzuki is not one of those vehicals that does that. :confused: don't know for sure?
about 20 bucks for belt and a couple of hours.
have fun
AZ :p
have you ever taken a 1.3 apart? they are an interferance motor. I speak from first hand experiance, also chilton, and hayes state that it is an interferance motor. just my 2cents
 

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dirtytoy said:
have you ever taken a 1.3 apart? they are an interferance motor. I speak from first hand experiance, also chilton, and hayes state that it is an interferance motor. just my 2cents
Then you dont know what youre lookin at. Everyone else said it, now I'll say it...... IT IS NOT AN INTERFERENCE MOTOR ! And yes Ive had many apart. Understand what youre saying before you post.
 

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From this website - it is an interference engine (AllData information)

http://www.patgosscarworld.com/suzuki.htm



Suzuki
Engine Recommended Interval
1.3L* SOHC
(22)

1.3L* DOHC
(22)

1.6L 8 Valve Engine
(22)

1.6L* 16 Valve Engine
(22)


* - Interference engine.

(22) - On 1993 & prior models, manufacturer does not recommend a specific maintenance interval. On 1994-98 non-CA vehicles, replace at 60,000 mile intervals in normal service. On 1994-98 CA vehicles, replace every 60,000 miles & inspect at 90,000 miles in normal service. On 1999 & later non-CA vehicles in normal service replacement at 60,000 miles is recommended but not required, but the belt should be inspected at 90,000 miles and replaced at 120,000 miles (if not previously replaced). On 1999 & later CA vehicles in normal service replacement at 60,000 miles & inspection at 90,000 miles is recommended but not required, but the belt should be replaced at 120,000 miles (if not previously replaced). On 1994 & later models operating in severe service, replace every 60,000 miles, then inspect at 90,000, 150,000 & 210,000 miles, or at 90,150 & 210 months.
 

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:shaking: Now, now children :flipoff2: Obviously some are 'BOOK READERS' and others are 'HANDS ON'. Me, I'm a 'HANDS ON' kinda guy. So here's the poop --- the 1.3 IS NOT a interference motor <PERIOD>


How do I know you might ask. Well for you 'BOOK READERS', I did a clay clearance on the piston tops when I installed the ISKY 'HI-LIFT' camshaft. And to be double sure I did the test WITHOUT a head gasket. <---- And, there is more than enough clearance between the valves and the cyl.head.

BTW, The block was decked .010 and the head .020


SO THERE, DONE, END OF THE CONTROVERSY. :cool2:
 

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Crab Bait said:
And, there is more than enough clearance between the valves and the cyl.head
Weeeeell.. not sooo fassst...

Depends on *HOW* you did the interference test.

1) I assume you did a test for your particular cam, with a particular cam timing, with a particular piston type. This is great, hats off to you! I am impressed that there was clearance even w/o the head gasket! Wow! I used to build motorcycle engines. I have had to relieve more than one piston when mixing and matching pistons and cams. By the way, did you have the stock pistons or the popular flat-top ones?

2) Did you also go ahead and test for *interference* in the case of a broken belt, though? NOT the same animal. Not all cams deliver highest lift when pistons are at TDC. If you put the clay in, anchored the piston at TDC and turned the cam a full circle, then your answer would be more authoritative and convincing.

Which was it?

PS I am both hands-on and a Book Reader.. knowledge is power!
 

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dirtytoy said:
have you ever taken a 1.3 apart? they are an interferance motor. I speak from first hand experiance,

also chilton, and hayes state that it is an interferance motor. just my 2cents
Hmmmm, Hayes also claims the hub nuts on my XJ should be tightened to 114 ft/lbs... That's way more than enough to ruin the bearings. I've found several mistakes in Hayes manuals for different vehichles... sometimes really big mistakes.

It is possible to make a non-interference motor into an interference motor by shaving the head or decking the block. That's what happened on my 22re, the head was shaved just a bit too much, it jumped time and bent 3 exaust valves. It's supposed to be an non interference motor. Point is: when you're dealing with old junk, what's supposed to be isn't always what it is.. And screw Hayes, they won't tell you the things you really need and are wrong on half the stuff they do tell you.
 

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you should read the hays manual also it says it interfearance. I also had a sami motor break a belt and when my bro and I took it apart all of the valves were bent and large dents in the pistons, this WAS A STOCK MOTOR. but you know what on second thought maybe one of the squirrels just broke loose and did that, you never know. I don't want to come off as a know it all but my bro and I have built about 10-15 sami motors and I do know 1 or 2 things about them.
 
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