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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I'm trying to decide on how to do my front spring-rear shackle hangers: Through the frame(factory style) or just weld a hanger under the frame. I know each method works just fine, but you always hear people say "the hanger under the frame will just get hung up and dragged across stuff" Does this really happen, or are there a bunch of PCE's spouting hearsay??

First-hand experience only please! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

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I am assuming you are talking about the shackles getting hung up. Because if the hangar gets caught up then you have bigger things to worry about? Like where are my shackles? The only time the hangar is exposed is when the axle is at full droop i.e. the shackle is shifted towards the front. Is that what you mean? And of course, the shackle length is a big factor too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes, I am talking about the shackles getting hung up. The way I look at it, the shackles aren't that much lower when the hanger is under the frame.?
 

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depending on how much you drop the front hanger mount shackle under the frame may make you have to run real short shackles or you may have to cut and turn the knuckles to get the right pinion angle.Mine are through the frame with a 5" shackle and the front mount dropped 2" and 1" forward using rear hybrid springs it works good. Caster and pinion angle are good.Only other problem I could see is the spring when compressed resting on the shackle mount.
 

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Mine haven't really gotten caught on anything (dragged a little maybe, but not hung up so far), but I'd still recommend going through the frame for caster/pinion angle considerations (unless you have a huge drop front hanger), clearance (real or imagined), ability to use standard lift springs instead of F-ing w/ hybrid packs, etc.

If I ever get to working on my truck again, I'd like to move the shackles to through the frame...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Erik,

Do you think I would still want to rotate the pinion up if I am using a Chev D44 and through the frame shackle hangers? Or would the hanger setup do enough for me?
 

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I did mine last weekend by welding to the frame. We didn't have any sort of a jig setup to make this easy, so being able to move around the mounts and having the option of just grinding off a tack weld was good for peace of mind.
 

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I can't recal a single time my shackle or hanger has gotten hung up being under the frame.
 

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Either way works fine. I just prefer through the frame because my angles are basically the same as the way the 79-85 Toyotas came. The biggest drawback that I can see with on the frame is the pinion angle and the castor angles. Neither that cannot be overcome with a bit of work.

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: OPP'S ]
 

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Do it the right way, dont be lazy! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
Get a 1 5/8" Hole saw, buy some 1 5/8 O.D. - 1 3/16 I.D. Tubing. Put the hole right in the middle of the body mount. (EASY) <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">
Looks good, better pinion angle.
<IMG width=640 height=480 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/Front shackle hanger.jpg">
 

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if your tire goes off a rock, the next thing that happens is the rock hitts the bottom of the leaf spring, it in turns slides down the end of the spring and either on to the frame or a good solid nerf bar. im not sure how the spring shackle mount would hang u up.
if this does happen there is one easy thing to do, BUY BIGGER TIRES, then the rock goes off the tire and onto the nerf bar.
besides, with good tires, locked f&r, your rig should be able to drag the mount over the rock , even with only 2-3 tires on the ground <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/maggie.gif" border="0">
 

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Originally posted by dangerber:
<STRONG>Erik,

Do you think I would still want to rotate the pinion up if I am using a Chev D44 and through the frame shackle hangers? Or would the hanger setup do enough for me?</STRONG>
The primary concern is CASTER. Pinion angle is secondary.

W/ the caster at about stock (1 or 2 degrees?), the pinion is about flat. If you increase the caster (which most people seem to recommend), the pinion will get even lower or point down.

You can easily gain a few inches under the pinion and driveshaft by pointing it at the t-case. If you are already cutting knuckles to narrow the axle, its not a whole lot of extra work to turn them and the perches (the perch on the pumpkin is the most work) to get your pinion up, so you might as well do it. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

As for shackles in or under the frame, its a lot easier to figure out *what* to set the knuckles/pinion/perches at when the shackles are through the frame because the spring perch surface stays relatively flat.

FWIW, if you are going to try to calculate what the angle difference is between the two to then set up perch/pinion/knuckles, for every inch the rear of the spring drops, it changes the spring perch mounting surface on the spring (very) roughly 1 degree.

I figure if I go w/ shackles through the frame, I can move the rear of the spring up about 4" and remove my 4 degree shims. <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0">

My pinion is pointed up about 12 degrees:



Looks like I gained 3-4" under the pinion just from the tilt. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">


BTW, 12 degrees points my pinion about exactly at the stock t-case for my lift and I think I have about 4 degrees caster. 12 degrees on the pinion might be a little steep for dual cases... I probably should have gone 10, but I don't think its going to hurt anything. Do you own measuring/calculations to be sure though.

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: ErikBeeb ]
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for the reply, Erik! That is a lot of good info. I'm leaning toward the through the frame method now.

BTW, how would you be able to do shackles through the frame when your springs are inboarded? Just curious... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

It's looking like I'm going to go 65" on my Chev D44 <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> After all, my runner isn't a DD!!
 

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Originally posted by dangerber:
<STRONG>BTW, how would you be able to do shackles through the frame when your springs are inboarded? Just curious... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
The shackle through the frame ONLY works if you are using front springs that are real close to stock length (or most of the added length is taken up through the arch).

Because the frame CURVES right there, if you wanna run really long springs the "hole through the frame" simply does not line up correct any more.

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: DeeAreEmm ]
 

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The shackle through the frame ONLY works if you are using front springs that are real close to stock length (or most of the added length is taken up through the arch).

Because the frame CURVES right there, if you wanna run really long springs the "hole through the frame" simply does not line up correct any more
I'm about to put the shackle hanger on my 83 on the bottom of the frame. This is the only way I can move the axle forward without giving up my cheap and plentifull YJ springs or creating the worst shackle angle in the world.

keep in mind the frame curves there but also goes UP. I'm hoping This will help with the castor. I plan on moving the axle 3-4" forward.

if hey ever actually hang up on a rock I plan to solve this with a good push on the skinny pedal <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: scottz ]
 

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Originally posted by dangerber:
<STRONG>BTW, how would you be able to do shackles through the frame when your springs are inboarded? Just curious... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
</STRONG>
They are 3/4" inboarded on each side, so...

You know how stock front shackles have the bend in them to clear the frame?

Use the bent shackle on the outsides w/ a 3/4" spacer at the spring (kinda like Allpro's straight front shackles), then a regular straight piece of flat stock on the inside plates.

Or something very similar to that... <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Speaking of the Allpro's, I suppose I could probably just use their shackle and put both spacers on the outside, but... <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">
(besides, I'll just make 'em for cheap!)
Allpro's greasable shackles:


[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: ErikBeeb ]
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
A-ha! I see! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> You've got it all figured out as usual! <IMG SRC="smilies/massey.gif" border="0">

Now, if I could only get Eight to make me an axle, and throw it on a pallet... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

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All you'd need is for him to find you a Chevy housing at the Pick n Pull to narrow and ship off and then you could find a Chevy or Wag on your end to use for axles and outers........ maybe? I don't think he's done any cross-country axles yet. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Have you tried to figure out how bad shipping might be? I wonder what a housing weighs... 100lbs? I wonder if its too big for UPS or similar...?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Originally posted by ErikBeeb:
<STRONG>All you'd need is for him to find you a Chevy housing at the Pick n Pull to narrow and ship off and then you could find a Chevy or Wag on your end to use for axles and outers........ maybe? I don't think he's done any cross-country axles yet. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Have you tried to figure out how bad shipping might be? I wonder what a housing weighs... 100lbs? I wonder if its too big for UPS or similar...?</STRONG>
When I talked to him last winter, he made it seem like he didn't want to deal with shipping one, but maybe now that he is getting famous for this stuff, he'll want some eastern representation!!! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I don't think it would cost too much to ship it, hell, I had Vova ship a TJM bumper that weighed 75 pounds to me. and I think it cost like $47!

Maybe I'll email him...
 

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That's not bad at all then. I think it cost almost that much to ship you that IFS diff that I think only weighed around 50lbs?


I think part of his thinking is that he's not a "pro" and he doesn't want to build something and send it off and have somebody not be happy w/ it. You've never seen his work in person, so you might have high expectations, etc.

I'll put in a good word for ya, FWIW. <IMG SRC="smilies/massey.gif" border="0">
 
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