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What are you talking about??? You dragged yourself into it talking about a completely aftermarket axle when the question was about a stock axle with high steer :laughing:
Whoa, you’re sounding like a jealous whiney little cunt now.

I dragged myself into nothing. The OP asked several basic questions. My response was a suggestion to rethink what he is doing as a whole. Another poster asked if I would expand on my comments. I did so hitting some of the high and low spots of the SD axle.

Now you come busting through the door whining about costs and effectiveness along with ROI. By your own admission you comment on how you would like some bling but can’t afford it. Because YOU cannot doesn’t mean others can’t.

Tell me how a under tube truss is going to solve some SD short side issues. Tell us how your truss will improve steering geometry. What are you sacrificing in ground clearance ? Tell us how you’re setting for pinion angle in both the X and Y dimension. How are you doing your knuckles ? Please expand on your comments. Perhaps you have ways of doing things we can learn from.

One guy responded in detail on how he used two SD axles and made one good one. Personally I think that was a helluva good idea and told him so.

All you’ve done is bitch and whine because I don’t conform to your ideology.

Are going to bitch and whine that I run an NV4500 and an Atlas too ? How about the blingy blue PowerTank with their digital readout pressure gauge that I use to fill my tires ?

Grow up and learn to open your mind before opening your mouth.

If you don't like my comments there is a feature called blocking. Welcome to use it should you desire.
 

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Home run here !!
Your approaching this whole axle business much differently than the vast majority of folks. :grinpimp:

Not many even think about retubing much less have the ability to do so. Your taking advantage of beefy products and making them fit your rig and your specs. All with a good ROI which just adds to the whole scenario. :grinpimp:

Way back when I had access to a waterjet cutting machine. We would jet the plug welds and push the tubes out. Similar to what your doing. Than build the axle around the rig.
You need a standard 20 ton harbor freight shop press and a torch to do what I did. No need for fancy equipment. edit : And a welder + angle grinder

Sadly it seems most folks don't even bother fabbing something like this up anymore. :(
I mean... you're the first one that said that you needed all this fancy shit too :rolleyes:
 

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You need a standard 20 ton harbor freight shop press and a torch to do what I did. No need for fancy equipment. edit : And a welder + angle grinder



I mean... you're the first one that said that you needed all this fancy shit too :rolleyes:
I also said that back in the day that's how we made front axles. We retubed them and sometimes even reused the factory C`s. Instead of a press a fixture was made and we used a bottle jack to push the tubes out.

Not everyone has the skill, time and tools to do what you did. Your one of the first folks I`ve run across that actually went back and built their axle from the center of a late(er) model axle in a long time. Most folks simply buy parts and weld them together at best. Not really understanding what they are doing and why. If they did then the build would be a lot different.

Did mine with blingy parts because that's what I wanted. Doesn't make me any better or worse than the next guy.
 

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Looking for real world feed back on the two options for SD Dana 60 knuckle high steer options. There are several companies offering weld on brackets to convert the knuckles to high steer. Welding to cast can be an issue with breaking so wanting to know if anyone has had experience with this happening or not happening.

The other option is to machine them to bolt on high steer arms. This is certainly a great way to go but more costly. I would ship them off and have this service done for me.
And if you like good steering geometry you'll not use the Ford parts at all.

Ried C`s and knuckles set for 7-8* caster after you`ve set the pinion angle. TR to the cast in arms for Ackerman.

An even better way would be to toss the Ford center and buy an aftermarket center. That way your making the axle fit YOUR rig not the other way around.

Not a fan of the Ford at all...............Yes, its buy in is cheap but the ROI sucks.
I know that Dana builds the axle to Ford’s specs. They (Dana) are pretty good at building axles for a number of companies and applications.

For a multi purpose rig that will see its share of street use the Ford speced SD60 Dana axle has a lot of shortcomings.

So in his first post OP mentioned that cost was Factor... then you drivel on about a fully custom axle.

Don’t take opposing comments as bashing. Everyone is entitled to there opinion. When someone comes and rocks the boat of conformability folks tend to attack with a closed mind based on what they know, which may or may not be accurate.

Most of my comments are going to be based on the 05+ SD60 however there is a tremendous amount of overlap to the <05 axles.

The short side is really short. Not much room for anything till you start cutting the center away. More than one person has cut into the tube by accident and welding that cut isn’t real effective. Have seen a number of broken short sides. Cut tube ? Not enough engagement with the center ? Center not strong enough after cutting ?

The center’s position is often in the way of things like track bar mounts and frame rails on compression. Often the DS angle from the TC output would be better if the center (pinion) was moved towards the passenger side a bit. ***short side is so short***

Overall width is another. Though that is a trade off. To achieve a decent Scrub Radius you need wheels with plenty of backspacing. Steering angle may or may not be compromised with the wheel/tire getting into things it shouldn’t.

The axles I’ve worked with have measured out to have 9-10* of separation from caster to pinion angle. In more than one instance pinion angle has been compromised to achieve decent (6*+) caster. A lockout on the hubs fixes the speed issue on the road. While a moderate speed on the driveshaft with the hubs locked up ends up being the only way around the DS `s crappy angles. Because you’re stuck with what the Ford Dana or is it Dana Ford specs are.

IF you know what your doing welding to the knuckles can be done successfully. Problem is the resulting steering geometry has no Ackerman and parallel steering at best. The location of the DL on the knuckle can limit the steering angle as well. It been tough for many to get the TB and DL the same angle much less the same length.

How about the steering stops ? You want adjustable positive stops to avoid breaking things.

The upper BJ has been an issue with a number of wheelers. Several folks are making kits to fix it but none of them are really end all fixes.

The offset heims for the TR to clear the diff cover are another band aid. A few folks have been able to modify the diff cover with a notch but that is not the norm. TR droop and roll is often the reward of making everything clear.

The 1480 and 1550 joints are not much different in capacity. The 1550 is larger in order to accommodate more steering angle but according to Dana Spicer they are only fractionally stronger than the 1480.

Yes the buy in is cheap. Working around all the “issues” depends a lot on your ability and ambition. Doesn’t take long and your “cheap” JY axle starts eating up serious cash.

Rather buy a bare center (with or without tubes) and build an axle to meet my needs. Can set the pinion angle(s) where they need to be. More leeway in positioning the center left to right so it plays nice with things like TB mounts and frames. Crank in whatever caster I want. Take advantage of the improved steering geometry. Set the width to whatever it should be. The ability to use shafts from places like Branik or SpiderTrax that have a lot of great features over standard designs.

More expensive ? Depends on a lot of factors, including perceived value in performance and capability.

Running Currie RJ`s front and rear stuffed with SpiderTrax shafts and outers plus Blaine Johnson brakes. Bought bare housings. Machined/pressed in my own tubes and built the axles from there. They fit, they work and in the end the investment was worth the money.

YMMV but that’s my take on all this.

If I had to do it over again the only thing I **might** change is the Reid S60 outers.... Maybe....
Your first line here says it all.


The truss you speak of doesn’t negate the the short side problems. In fact it’s the start of the downward slide.


Whoa, you’re sounding like a jealous whiney little cunt now.

I dragged myself into nothing. The OP asked several basic questions. My response was a suggestion to rethink what he is doing as a whole. Another poster asked if I would expand on my comments. I did so hitting some of the high and low spots of the SD axle.

Now you come busting through the door whining about costs and effectiveness along with ROI. By your own admission you comment on how you would like some bling but can’t afford it. Because YOU cannot doesn’t mean others can’t.

Tell me how a under tube truss is going to solve some SD short side issues. Tell us how your truss will improve steering geometry. What are you sacrificing in ground clearance ? Tell us how you’re setting for pinion angle in both the X and Y dimension. How are you doing your knuckles ? Please expand on your comments. Perhaps you have ways of doing things we can learn from.

One guy responded in detail on how he used two SD axles and made one good one. Personally I think that was a helluva good idea and told him so.

All you’ve done is bitch and whine because I don’t conform to your ideology.

Are going to bitch and whine that I run an NV4500 and an Atlas too ? How about the blingy blue PowerTank with their digital readout pressure gauge that I use to fill my tires ?

Grow up and learn to open your mind before opening your mouth.

If you don't like my comments there is a feature called blocking. Welcome to use it should you desire.
You are actually the cunt here. Your posts keep mentioning all the things you couldn't stand about the stock axle that the OP is using. It seems that you only wanted to come to this thread to boast about your bling over priced axle. Now you do bring up some good points about Ackerman and pinion angle vs caster, but still trying to overkill the OP question about weld on or bolt on high steer arms. Simple question looking for real world feedback of the 2 options he listed that he could accomplish. You go off about your build and can't stand that someone else didn't understand why you were here in this thread trying to sell something that wasn't asked about.

But to answer a couple questions, i will lose no ground clearance... if done right and thoughtfully, the truss will not be any lower than the diff. It will not fix steering geometry, it really doesn't have any issues that i will face. I think your perception of such deficiencies is how you're justifying the $$$$ you spent.
Knuckles and pinion will stay in stock geometry, and im going to run 1410 double cardan. I also doubt it will see any speeds over 45 mph in 4wd. If you're not racing, and you're using 4wd over 45 mph in any vehicle, you're doing it wrong imo.
Never once said i couldn't afford it, i said i wouldn't unless i was using your money. You'd be surprised if you came to my house and shop...

Why would i block you? There is potential to learn from you. This just wasn't the thread for a class, which it seems like you have none of:flipoff2:

It seems that other people in this thread have called you out on your nonsense that has no place in a thread that asked simple questions about high steer options for the stock configured axle. Like i said, i think you came here to tell everyone how cool you are for building such a sweet axle. It sounds sweet, and likely will last forever, but still not the answer to the question at hand. I'm definitely not jealous, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. As for me "busting in the door" i was commenting in this thread before you and had relevant info about being able to find a local shop to machine the knuckles for the bolt ons, as I've had good luck with local shops machining my knuckles on my current Dana 60 when i had no clue how to do it. Thank you though, i love being called cunty, i really have been feeling cunty lately:laughing:

You need a standard 20 ton harbor freight shop press and a torch to do what I did. No need for fancy equipment. edit : And a welder + angle grinder



I mean... you're the first one that said that you needed all this fancy shit too :rolleyes:
That's pretty sweet, just a press and torch, I'd like to see that. I have both and might be happy to try this on my next build.
 

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S

That's pretty sweet, just a press and torch, I'd like to see that. I have both and might be happy to try this on my next build.
Add a lathe and a bandsaw to the necessary tools, in my mind. :)

I used two 99-04 SD60's (used two long side tubes) and a HP44 center for my front axle. 60 center wouldn't fit where I needed it to, and no need on this particular project. Machine the tubes to press over the stock 44 tubes, and weld.



Still doesn't help the hi-steer dilemma though. :flipoff2:
 

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I first started out looking at the weld on due to the cost savings since a lot of people have success with weld on. After researching the weld on and talking to a company that is one of the common top choices they said if your going to run it like an Ultra4 don't run a weld on, get a bolt on.

I would have no problem welding it with with the correct methods. But I still never was comfortable with the idea. I decided bolt on was the way to go so I could sleep at night and not dream of having the high steer break off and cause me to drive off a cliff and burn to death in a pile of twisted metal.

Bolt on methods varied so much as well as options for sending the knuckles out. By the time I was done researching. I saw the high steer in my head and figured it was easy enough to weld up a high steer bracket and drill and tap the knuckle and mount it. This allowed to put the tie rod location exactly where I wanted it. The bolt on design also grabbed the knuckle over more area than most key or step using smaller studs in a concentrated area. In the end I'm confident it is the strongest solution using the stock knuckle. Going to an aftermarket knuckle designed for high steer would be a better solution but I can not justify the cost and need.
Pictures of it can be found on IG @Dustdynamics
 

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So in his first post OP mentioned that cost was Factor... then you drivel on about a fully custom axle.



Your first line here says it all.








You are actually the cunt here. Your posts keep mentioning all the things you couldn't stand about the stock axle that the OP is using. It seems that you only wanted to come to this thread to boast about your bling over priced axle. Now you do bring up some good points about Ackerman and pinion angle vs caster, but still trying to overkill the OP question about weld on or bolt on high steer arms. Simple question looking for real world feedback of the 2 options he listed that he could accomplish. You go off about your build and can't stand that someone else didn't understand why you were here in this thread trying to sell something that wasn't asked about.

But to answer a couple questions, i will lose no ground clearance... if done right and thoughtfully, the truss will not be any lower than the diff. It will not fix steering geometry, it really doesn't have any issues that i will face. I think your perception of such deficiencies is how you're justifying the $$$$ you spent.
Knuckles and pinion will stay in stock geometry, and im going to run 1410 double cardan. I also doubt it will see any speeds over 45 mph in 4wd. If you're not racing, and you're using 4wd over 45 mph in any vehicle, you're doing it wrong imo.
Never once said i couldn't afford it, i said i wouldn't unless i was using your money. You'd be surprised if you came to my house and shop...

Why would i block you? There is potential to learn from you. This just wasn't the thread for a class, which it seems like you have none of:flipoff2:

It seems that other people in this thread have called you out on your nonsense that has no place in a thread that asked simple questions about high steer options for the stock configured axle. Like i said, i think you came here to tell everyone how cool you are for building such a sweet axle. It sounds sweet, and likely will last forever, but still not the answer to the question at hand. I'm definitely not jealous, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. As for me "busting in the door" i was commenting in this thread before you and had relevant info about being able to find a local shop to machine the knuckles for the bolt ons, as I've had good luck with local shops machining my knuckles on my current Dana 60 when i had no clue how to do it. Thank you though, i love being called cunty, i really have been feeling cunty lately:laughing:



That's pretty sweet, just a press and torch, I'd like to see that. I have both and might be happy to try this on my next build.

Best pirate spanking I have seen around here in a long time. Bravo :beer::beer::beer:
 

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Add a lathe and a bandsaw to the necessary tools, in my mind. :)

I used two 99-04 SD60's (used two long side tubes) and a HP44 center for my front axle. 60 center wouldn't fit where I needed it to, and no need on this particular project. Machine the tubes to press over the stock 44 tubes, and weld.



Still doesn't help the hi-steer dilemma though. :flipoff2:
No, it doesn't, and that's my fault. I should've pm'd you about it.
Sorry for taking part in the massive thread derail @Prizefighter
I hope you got some good feedback that you were looking for. I bet in the end this thread will also help others since the super duty Dana 60 thread is full of nonsense talking about nonsense that's hard to find any info without rereading the whole fuckin thing all over...
 

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I first started out looking at the weld on due to the cost savings since a lot of people have success with weld on. After researching the weld on and talking to a company that is one of the common top choices they said if your going to run it like an Ultra4 don't run a weld on, get a bolt on.

I would have no problem welding it with with the correct methods. But I still never was comfortable with the idea. I decided bolt on was the way to go so I could sleep at night and not dream of having the high steer break off and cause me to drive off a cliff and burn to death in a pile of twisted metal.

Bolt on methods varied so much as well as options for sending the knuckles out. By the time I was done researching. I saw the high steer in my head and figured it was easy enough to weld up a high steer bracket and drill and tap the knuckle and mount it. This allowed to put the tie rod location exactly where I wanted it. The bolt on design also grabbed the knuckle over more area than most key or step using smaller studs in a concentrated area. In the end I'm confident it is the strongest solution using the stock knuckle. Going to an aftermarket knuckle designed for high steer would be a better solution but I can not justify the cost and need.
Pictures of it can be found on IG @Dustdynamics

 

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I first started out looking at the weld on due to the cost savings since a lot of people have success with weld on. After researching the weld on and talking to a company that is one of the common top choices they said if your going to run it like an Ultra4 don't run a weld on, get a bolt on.

I would have no problem welding it with with the correct methods. But I still never was comfortable with the idea. I decided bolt on was the way to go so I could sleep at night and not dream of having the high steer break off and cause me to drive off a cliff and burn to death in a pile of twisted metal.

Bolt on methods varied so much as well as options for sending the knuckles out. By the time I was done researching. I saw the high steer in my head and figured it was easy enough to weld up a high steer bracket and drill and tap the knuckle and mount it. This allowed to put the tie rod location exactly where I wanted it. The bolt on design also grabbed the knuckle over more area than most key or step using smaller studs in a concentrated area. In the end I'm confident it is the strongest solution using the stock knuckle. Going to an aftermarket knuckle designed for high steer would be a better solution but I can not justify the cost and need.
Pictures of it can be found on IG @Dustdynamics
Price on your setup?
 

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That's pretty sweet, just a press and torch, I'd like to see that. I have both and might be happy to try this on my next build.
Torch the plug welds out of long side of one housing and short side of another one.
Install housings in the press and press out the tubes.
Heat the housing that had the short side removed while you're cooling the long side tube on the housing end.
Slide them together and weld the plug welds.

Now you have an axle with 2 long sides.

Cut the C's and remove the left over tube.
Cut the tubes to desired length.
Clean up the tube ends
Heat the C's
Slide/Wack them on the tubes while making sure your caster is how you want
Weld C's



Edit : Cutting the tubes to length before the pressing operations makes it waaaaay easier to fit the housing in the press. But I wrote the list to give an idea of the concept.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
It's all good. Some good tech came out of it lol.

And I'll be sending the stock Ford knuckles off to be machined after reading the responses. I like the idea of DIY but the cons have "steered" me away from welding them on :laughing:
 

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Price on your setup?
I don't have time to make them for sale. Its mainly all labor as the flat bar and laser tabs and bolts are around $100 total. Hopefully others can get ideas and build their own versions or a vendor starts makes a none machined bolt on version. I don't know what it would look like on a regular SD 60 knuckle as mine are F550 SUPER 60 knuckles.
 

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It's all good. Some good tech came out of it lol.

And I'll be sending the stock Ford knuckles off to be machined after reading the responses. I like the idea of DIY but the cons have "steered" me away from welding them on :laughing:
I will say the 05+ knuckles weld very good.

That's a dual pass TIG weld with 70s2 filler (what I had laying around):



I just didn't like the idea of welding a high steer arm to the knuckle as a sole way of fastening so I went with FWS arms (you can see machine work in the picture).
 

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Ackermann, steering angles, and arm length are an important factors to decide on for the high steer setup.

I chose parallel arms with no Ackermann effect so both tires would turn at the max angle for tighter turning in the rocks. Trade off is tire scrub on flat traction surfaces. But I'm not building for pavement use.

Double shearing off the stock lower eye as a tie rod pivot is going to keep the stock Ackermann and not turn the outside tire all the way and if that's the only tire making contact you get less effective steering angle. Using a bolt on arm with no pivot point drilled yet is an easy way to set it up as needed. Some arms might only have a narrow area to drill so Ackermann might only be parallel or set to the allowable drill area. If you're road driving enough you might want to use a high steer arm with more area or a location that allows for Ackermann.

The hydraulic cylinder and high steer arm length need to match so the total ram travel is used and the knuckle steering stops are almost touching at max angle. I ended up with 5.54" arm and a 8" travel cylinder with 45 degrees at both tires.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2fAa1UHX-A/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

 

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Ackermann, steering angles, and arm length are an important factors to decide on for the high steer setup.

I chose parallel arms with no Ackermann effect so both tires would turn at the max angle for tighter turning in the rocks. Trade off is tire scrub on flat traction surfaces. But I'm not building for pavement use.

Double shearing off the stock lower eye as a tie rod pivot is going to keep the stock Ackermann and not turn the outside tire all the way and if that's the only tire making contact you get less effective steering angle. Using a bolt on arm with no pivot point drilled yet is an easy way to set it up as needed. Some arms might only have a narrow area to drill so Ackermann might only be parallel or set to the allowable drill area. If you're road driving enough you might want to use a high steer arm with more area or a location that allows for Ackermann.

The hydraulic cylinder and high steer arm length need to match so the total ram travel is used and the knuckle steering stops are almost touching at max angle. I forget what I ended up with, but I think it was around 6" arm and a 8" travel cylinder with 45 degrees at both tires.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2fAa1UHX-A/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Great info on trade offs with ackermann... I'm going to quote this into the front axle build thread if you don't mind. I really want to get that going so info is available to all the wannabe builders like me:laughing:
 

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Great info on trade offs with ackermann... I'm going to quote this into the front axle build thread if you don't mind. I really want to get that going so info is available to all the wannabe builders like me:laughing:
Fine by me. I updated the arm length in the quoted text so revise as needed.
 

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The height of the high steer also determines the loading of the ball joints.

I went extra high to get the tie rods and cylinder up out of the rocks. This puts all the steering load in line with the upper ball joints. In stock form the steering load is down lower and centered between the upper and lower ball joints which better distributes the steering load.

With the high steer pivots up higher and closer to the upper ball joints, the tie rods can also take some vertical weight load off the knuckle ball joints when not steering. It would act as having two upper ball joints when no steering load is applied. This is beneficial for high G's or gravity loading when landing from a fall or jump.

I don't know what type of load is breaking upper ball joints or if its even an issue, but height of the steering arm does have an effect.
 
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