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Don't do the shackle reversal. The only area that it is supposed to help is the street handling. Otherwise, it does more harm than good.
 

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I DAMN sure did not do a reversal for street handling.

I chose to do it so I could mount the "fixed end" of the spring flush with the frame and move my axle 4.5" forward.

I think it is worth doing just to get the damn shackles out of harms way.....
 

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With the reversal you also have to address the driveline cause your going to make the angle more extreme. Going SOA with the same springs is going to put the shackles higher and increase approach angle relative to the tire. My .02 would be to do the SOA and wheel it. If it gets to the point the shackles are causing probs, reverse em.
 

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Defffinatly do the shackle reversal. The benafits are not just for the street. Like the others said the increase in appraoch angle, as well as moving the axle forward. BUT the greatest benefit is the axle will know move freely over rocks they way it should.

For example. With the shackle in the front (normal mount) when the jeep approaches a rock or tree or whatever, the shackle has to move forward for the spring to compress thus causing the entire axle to move slightly forward as it compresses. When the tire comes in contact with the obsticle the tire wants to be pushed backwards as it climbs not forward.

If you do the reversal, the front axle will crawl over rocks and trees with a greater efficiency and smoother, less hop and bounce, Because for the spring to compress in a shackle reversal the shackle moves backwards along with the tire and axle as the spring compresses.

This is one of the greatest mods I did to my rig.

<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: rockbound ]
 

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rockbound: maybe you wouldn"t brake all those axles if the tire could move backwords while climbing?????? what do you think?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Originally posted by rockbound:
<STRONG>Defffinatly do the shackle reversal. The benafits are not just for the street. Like the others said the increase in appraoch angle, as well as moving the axle forward. BUT the greatest benefit is the axle will know move freely over rocks they way it should.

For example. With the shackle in the front (normal mount) when the jeep approaches a rock or tree or whatever, the shackle has to move forward for the spring to compress thus causing the entire axle to move slightly forward as it compresses. When the tire comes in contact with the obsticle the tire wants to be pushed backwards as it climbs not forward.

If you do the reversal, the front axle will crawl over rocks and trees with a greater efficiency and smoother, less hop and bounce, Because for the spring to compress in a shackle reversal the shackle moves backwards along with the tire and axle as the spring compresses.

This is one of the greatest mods I did to my rig.

<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: rockbound ]</STRONG>
just like my toyota comes from the factory <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> untill I can get him to sell the JEEP, he can at least try to get it to wheel as well as one <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">, J/K, I'm not trying to get him to sell it
<IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">
 

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Originally posted by JIM3030:
<STRONG>rockbound: maybe you wouldn"t brake all those axles if the tire could move backwords while climbing?????? what do you think?</STRONG>

I am confused with your question, My tire does move up and backwards during compression or climbing because of the shackle reversal. What do you mean?


<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">
 

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Originally posted by JIM3030:
<STRONG>ok I just put the pipe down. it reads different now</STRONG>

No problem I thought I was missing something, was currious to learn. I'll take any advise on helping to keep these damn joints together!


<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">
 

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What they are not telling you is that you will not have to move your axle forward if you don't do a shackle reversal.

I am running 38.5's with no sheetmetal cut in the front. How many of you SR guys can say that?

And what about the driveline? As the axle drops, it pulls away from the TC. Then you will need a long travel driveline. Otherwise it will pull apart.

As far as approach angle, the worst I have seen is on SR. That massive rigid mount in front.

And then what about the pitman arm/tie rod interference cause by moving the axle forward enough to clear 35" tires? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

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Bob do you drive yours on the street or highway? if you do how does it handle? im trying to decide between reversing or not.
 

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Originally posted by Bob/CA:
<STRONG>
I am running 38.5's with no sheetmetal cut in the front. How many of you SR guys can say that?

Does not matter to me, but yes I cut.

And what about the driveline? As the axle drops, it pulls away from the TC. Then you will need a long travel driveline. Otherwise it will pull apart.

True.

As far as approach angle, the worst I have seen is on SR. That massive rigid mount in front.

That is a "kit" SR. If you look at my post, I stated that the best way to do this, and I should add, ONLY way I would recommend this is with a "Cut and Turn" on the knuckle and install the fixed end of the spring mounted flush with the frame.

That thing that hangs down is there to correct caster on SR kits that do are bolt on. I would not recommend that either.

And then what about the pitman arm/tie rod interference cause by moving the axle forward enough to clear 35" tires? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Again, all custom, but if you are going to the trouble of a SOA, do a SR too, you will not be sorry.
 

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I say screw shackle reversals, they only proven benifit is on the street. If your truly worried about clearance issues what about the shackle hanging under the frame with a reversal? The front approach angle can be addresed without reversal if your reative. The Offroad benifits are arguable, some say revresal helps climb by letting the tire move away from an obsticle and some say non reversed is better because it forces the tire into the obsticle getting traction. I have driven several non reversed jeeps and feel they handle just fine, no worse then my yota(actually alot better in many cases)
 

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Only after I did my SO did I hear a good reason to do the SR. Imagine sliding off of a rock and bashing the shackle on something hard. Suddenly you have a very mangled spring. With the SR the same situation will get you a scratched bumper. Not a bad reason at all.
You will probably need a long slip driveshaft with the SR. So add about $300 (ish) to the price of the SO.
Peopel will argue all day long about the differences between the axle moving forwards or backwards on compression. It is a bit of a mute point if you are running completly flat springs anyway. If you are, the SR makes the axle move forward not backwards. It is hard to imagine but that is why you need the longer slip driveline.

Oh yeah, if you are going to do it. Do it when you do the SO. Do not go back in and modify it for a SR at a later time. It is more of a pain in the but than you might think....
 

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This has been debated on here a number of times and for what it's worth I've had the M.O.R.E. SR/Buggy Spring setup for about a year now and love it. It's on a SOA CJ-7 with 36"TSL's. Yes I had to trim the fenders, yes I had to buy a long travel driveline, and yes I had to re-do the steering. Fender's don't matter, I'm going to build flatties anyway. Steering didn't matter I put hi steer on. I was glad it works so well I need a long slip driveline! I just returned from Montrose where I ran with guys that had quarter eliptics, custom coil setups and everything in between. I seemed to get along as well as any of them and better than some. In the end it's personal preference like some others have said. My preference is the reversal.
 

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Originally posted by rockbound:
<STRONG>
For example. With the shackle in the front (normal mount) when the jeep approaches a rock or tree or whatever, the shackle has to move forward for the spring to compress thus causing the entire axle to move slightly forward as it compresses. When the tire comes in contact with the obsticle the tire wants to be pushed backwards as it climbs not forward.

</STRONG>
I think that the original idea behind this was too force the tire into the object in order to get better traction. Which works quite well exceptfor the fact that stock Jeeps can't handle the things we want to climb.

Do the R/S <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> You'll like it. New front shaft for the increase in front travel forward.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Originally posted by Steve Sommer:
<STRONG>This has been debated on here a number of times and for what it's worth I've had the M.O.R.E. SR/Buggy Spring setup for about a year now and love it. It's on a SOA CJ-7 with 36"TSL's. Yes I had to trim the fenders, yes I had to buy a long travel driveline, and yes I had to re-do the steering. Fender's don't matter, I'm going to build flatties anyway. Steering didn't matter I put hi steer on. I was glad it works so well I need a long slip driveline! I just returned from Montrose where I ran with guys that had quarter eliptics, custom coil setups and everything in between. I seemed to get along as well as any of them and better than some. In the end it's personal preference like some others have said. My preference is the reversal.</STRONG>
R U running the M.O.R.E high steer on a D30? How do you like it? I will recomend he goes reverseal <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Thaks to everyone for there thoughts
<IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">
 

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Originally posted by SweetCJ7 aka. Allen Kurtz:
<STRONG>I think that the original idea behind this was too force the tire into the object in order to get better traction. Which works quite well exceptfor the fact that stock Jeeps can't handle the things we want to climb.</STRONG>
Y'know, I haven't heard of anyone moving the rear springs' shackle to the front of the spring for this extra traction while climbing yet.. Why is that?

If a forward shackle is so great for traction in the front, why not in the back, too?

Or maybe it just doesn't make enough of a difference to warrant the effort..

I went RS front on my Scout II after I sheared the center pins, bent the springs, cracked the spring hangers, and bottomed out the front driveshaft and pogo'd the Dana 20, 727->20 adapter, and the 727 'case.

I've also had problems with the spring shackles (when in front) hitting a rock, when an RS would've let me clear just enough of the rock to get the front tires onto it.

-Tom
 

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As far as approach angle, the worst I have seen is on SR. That massive rigid mount in front.
More ( www.mountainoffroad.com ) now sells a "stubby" mount srs system. It throws your caster off, but if you doing SOA/hi-steer at the same time, you can easily address that. Anyway, it looks real nice, the spring mounts hardly hang down at all.
 
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