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do shocks mounted verticle reduce body roll?

  • yes

    Votes: 21 56.8%
  • no

    Votes: 7 18.9%
  • crash likes noobs

    Votes: 9 24.3%

  • Total voters
    37
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Discussion Starter #1
OK serious question, I got a 90 runner, they are heavy, 5" tg rears, 44044s front cause the tgs were too soft with the 3.4 and heavy runner, who thinks mounting the shock vertical will reduce body roll on the street?

it's a poll
thx for all replies
I have my thoughts, but I know they are completely opposite of others, so who can explain weather vertical is better then pointed in at top, and why it works if it does?
 

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ill assume since pat built it, it has bilsteins on all fours?? the 4runners are really top heavy exagerating the body roll normally associated with /\ mounted shocks, the prob isnt that your shocks are angled in a bit, its that the upper mounts are so far towards the middle of the vehicle...sorry bad typing..broke wrist and thumb...you have to figure out if youn wanna give up the nice sealed up cab for out boarded,more verticle shocks and cut into the floor bottomm in the back

post apic,maybe theres nothing really wrong,you just not used to a lifted big 2nd generatiop 4ru n er
 

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ill assume since pat built it, it has bilsteins on all fours?? the 4runners are really top heavy exagerating the body roll normally associated with /\ mounted shocks, the prob isnt that your shocks are angled in a bit, its that the upper mounts are so far towards the middle of the vehicle...sorry bad typing..broke wrist and thumb...you have to figure out if youn wanna give up the nice sealed up cab for out boarded,more verticle shocks and cut into the floor bottomm in the back

post apic,maybe theres nothing really wrong,you just not used to a lifted big 2nd generatiop 4ru n er

x2 Don't need to be perfectly verticle but bit more upright and set as far apart as possible. Biggest issue with /\shocks is they usually end up with very little seperation at the top which creates the pivot point.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ill assume since pat built it, it has bilsteins on all fours?? the 4runners are really top heavy exagerating the body roll normally associated with /\ mounted shocks, the prob isnt that your shocks are angled in a bit, its that the upper mounts are so far towards the middle of the vehicle...sorry bad typing..broke wrist and thumb...you have to figure out if youn wanna give up the nice sealed up cab for out boarded,more verticle shocks and cut into the floor bottomm in the back

post apic,maybe theres nothing really wrong,you just not used to a lifted big 2nd generatiop 4ru n er
ya musta been jerking it real hard!.lol
I'll get a pic, I can cut a hole & raise them & still seal it up, sheetmetal
 

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ya musta been jerking it real hard!.lol
I'll get a pic, I can cut a hole & raise them & still seal it up, sheetmetal
you can buy axle end shock mounts from poly performance and ruff stuff that mount off the back of the housing, saving 2-3'' in mount height(i used these on my shocks to save hoop height, they work great)

i cant jerk off now..:( :flipoff2:
 

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It won't "reduce" the roll so much as the roll will be controlled better because of the improved damping.

My old rig had the /\ and on the new one they are mounted much farther out (outside the frame) and closer to vertical. The roll overall is worse on my new rig because of the soft coils, but it is slower and far more controlled. (I'm talking about before sway the bars).

I like how factory shocks are mounted on the 2nd and 3rd gen runners. They are about as far out and as vertical as you can get them w/o putting them outside the frame. I would try to keep them mounted similarly if you can, but if you're swapping to leaves you cant.

Also, if you look at the new Tacoma's, they have the shocks mounted outside the frame rails as wide as possible on the axle too.

Here my new rigs outside frame mounts, but you have to have a relatively wide axle and narrow tires or they will rub...

 

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The closer to actual suspension travel and direction the shock gets the more efficient it is. I'm a believer that mounting the rear shocks in a /\ started to make shorter travel shocks work with long travel rear suspension. It works but makes the shocks far less efficient in doing so.


On your rear mount them more vertical and back towards the shackle in line with how the suspension moves and it will be very stable.
 

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Also, if you have to lean them, leaning them forward or backward would be better for controlling body roll than leaning them in at the middle because then they are mounted wider on the frame.
 

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Yeah, you have good info here:

basically these are the factors to think about, for body roll:

1) In that configuration, your shocks are effectively made softer.

Here's an example, that looks to be about a 45* angle. So, lets say you have roughly 18" vertical, 18" horizontal, that means the shock is 25.5" in length to go from point A to point B. Now, say you compress the suspension 1". Its now 17" vertical, 18" horizontal, the shock would now be 24.76".

So, for 1" of travel, you only compressed the shock 0.74". If you were able to get a true 1" of compression, you'd see a 35% increase in damping force alone, without any other change. Thats one big reason the /\ setup sucks. But, as noted, you can cheat, and use a shorter shock and get more axle travel.

This will also increase your straight up and down bump damping by the same amount, so it would be stiffer.

2) Now look at it from a statics/dynamics perspective (sorry, I'm an automotive engineer..). Think of the body like a teeter-totter, with the roll axis as the center fulcrum. You can choose where to apply the force of the shocks, and there were will be a lever effect. Apply it further out towards the wheels, it will have more lever effect, as the cost of needing more travel.

So, that there again multipies your body roll effect, but in ths case if they are moved further out, it won't really affect the up and down damping as much, just the lean.

Ultimately, you have to make the choice based on how much shock you can fit. The further out you go, the more length you need for flex travel, but the better roll control you will have.

If you want max damping for up/down bump travel, then mount them perfectly vertical.

If you want max roll control damping, then mount them on angle so the shock's travel direction is in line with the travel of the shock mount on the axle. (i.e. in a roll/flex situation it does move up and inward, so you do want some inward tilt, just not anything like in the pic...)
 

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The most effective positioning and angling of your shocks for roll damping will depend on the location of your roll center. On a leaf spring vehicle, roll center is typically above the axle, so orienting your shocks as far outboard as possible and vertically || (as viewed from the back of the truck) will give you the most effective roll damping short of angling your shocks outward \/. If your roll center were below the axle, you would get better roll damping by angling your shocks inward /\

This is partly why I mounted my shocks the way I did.
 

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If you want max roll control damping, then mount them on angle so the shock's travel direction is in line with the travel of the shock mount on the axle. (i.e. in a roll/flex situation it does move up and inward, so you do want some inward tilt, just not anything like in the pic...)
I disagree with this statement. Draw a rear view free body diagram, show the location of the roll center, and you will see that angling the shock inward will result in less effective roll damping if the roll center is above the axle.
 

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I disagree with this statement. Draw a rear view free body diagram, show the location of the roll center, and you will see that angling the shock inward will result in less effective roll damping if the roll center is above the axle.
Ugh, free body diagrams.

Wanna draw it up in paint to demonstrate? I am assuming long shocks that would mount above the roll center. So if I look at this pic, then the red is at rest, the blue is rolled. The circle in the middle is roll center, the light blue bar at the bottom is the axle. Mounting the shocks like this, further out at the axle, sligthly inward at the body, does a good job of keeping them pretty close to normal to the direction of motion.

If you mounted the top of the shock at the level or below the roll center, you'd want them angled opposite of this pic. It affects whether the mount moves outward or inward.

I would say mounting like this gives you maximum practical roll damping...

I could be wrong, though. Its been 15 long years since school and these days I make pretty lights and displays for the camaro, not suspension design...

If my grandpa wasn't dying of cancer, I'd discuss with him. He invented the adjustable rate shock absorber. :(
 

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the amount they will effect body roll will be very small, Why do you care Darren, You are just going to part it out soon :flipoff2:
I was wondering how he even knew it had body roll, I thought that required driving?

Moving the top mount outwards will help, but it won't be night and day. The best soultion would be to move the upper mounts out and go to a stiffer shock. The valving on those shocks (if from TG) is likely based on a pickup
 
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