[muddogbob]

I'm planning on taking my fj62 to the dark side over summer. I know in general what parts to pick up ie. hy-steer, shocks, ect. but i'm looking for a more specific/complete list of items. Like part numbers for spring perches, traction bar ideas, shock length, best hy-steer arm, shock hoops, shock mounts, other small parts that bring it all together. I want to get it done right the first time!

Also, I plan on using OME springs/shackles. Have a full OME Heavy/Medium suspension, shocks, shackles, bushings. I also have 4.88s and ARBs to fill the differentials. Planning on running a tire of 37" hopefully on 17" rims.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[60seriesguy]

Jason Kenne at JKCustoms makes a killer traction bar, you might want to give him a call.
www.jkcustoms.com

Paul Decker also offers a traction bar that's been Rubicon-tested and seems to perform quite well, he can be reached at:

http://www.hotcampshowers.com/

Another option would be DJ's Traction in Utah, I know he makes a traction bar of his own design that also seems to have a decent reputation:

http://www.DJ40.com/

The end result of the SOA will vary depending on which perches you use, etc... so going by someone else's measurement for shocks is probably not the best idea. Wait till you're done, put it on a ramp, and figure out what would work. You'll probably have to relocate the top rear shock mounts to get extra clearance.

If I was to do it all over again I would *not* use heavy OME's for a SO, especially if you plan on doing much rockcrawling. That is going to be one TALL bitch! In Arizona and Utah I didn't have a problem with it, but the first time I took the truck wheeling in the snot-covered, off-camber tight trails of the Mid-Atlantic I really questioned the wisdom of my decision. Do as Andre suggested, sell those OME's and get yourself some flat ALCAN's, you can get a great quality ride and save some height. I just recently saw a spy shot of a Utah FJ62 currently sporting a SOA conversion with Alcans and running 37's and it looks SWEET, the height is definitely more manageable. If you insist on running the heavy OME's, you won't need a traction bar, I get ZERO axle wrap with mine, even on slickrock/granite.

I used the weld-on shock hoops from All-Pro cause they were cheap and they worked; dunno if the cost has changed since, but you could always have someone fabricate them for you, there's nothing to them.

There's about four different Hy-Steer options, All-Pro, Marlin, Mountain Air, Sky, OTT. They're all pretty similar, you may want to run a price check and see what works for you. I suggest upgrading the tie rods and tie rod ends with some FZJ80 hardware, much stronger than stock. Added cost, but THIS is the time to do it, I regret not spending the extra money when i did mine.

Remember you'll have to extend or relocate the mounting bracket for the brakelines. Napa part for the flexible hose, I don't have it handy but do a search.

Gearing? You'll need at least 4.88's to move these 37's, and if you're going to do some rockcrawling, now's the time to address a crawler option.

 

[bernefj60]

I'm pm'd you, but I’ll respond publicly to the other topics.

37's and 17's would be cool. And necessary with the extra 3" of lift.

I run 36's with stock springs. They rub a little. When the rebuild comes I’m going with 2 1/2" springs and 38's. Should be fine.

I like the idea of running the bigger rim. Sidewall strength is a big issue when it comes to these heavy rigs perched up high. A smaller aspect ratio can only be a good thing when it comes to the sway issue.

AllPro makes a really good high steer arm, but there seem to be a lot of companies out there now who are making them. Shop around.

Traction bar is a must have with a flexy suspension. Don't know what it's like with the OME, but designs vary. I like the ones that follow the driveshaft, acting not only as a traction ball, but also as a protector against candy-caning your DS. Many companies make (Spidertrax is one) the necessary materials to make your own. I'm not aware of anyone who makes a specific FJ60 traction bar.

The perches are Mopar items. Check the LCML archives and you should find the PN pretty fast

http://www.birfield.com/archives/html/landcruisers/

I'd have some hoops made for the front. You can preload them, too, but I don't know if that's necessary. I think people like Mudrak www.mudrak.com can make you what you need.

The other options you have are the Ford F-250 Shock towers. Not too expensive, and a lot of people go that route. Though I think that with a custom suspension a fixed length tower won't be your best bet.

As with any project, there are variables that you introduce that make it hard to say that one thing will work better than another. Best to make a lot of measurements after the springs go in. Drive it a little sans shocks to let the springs settle, then measure everything to get it right. I like Doestch Tech for shocks. Expensive, but you get a quality product. Talk to Joe Calleja at CTS in Colorado, he knows his stuff.

I would wait until you've gotten shocks and towers worked out to install the traction bar, too. Let things get loose and retighten them before you restrict it to the point that you can't tell if they're loose.

Few things you might also consider:

Rear disks. Lots of tire + Lots of weight = hard to stop. Rear disks will help out alot.

Your front axle. How far is it from the front output shaft to the front pinion? Are you going to need to cut-and-turn the front axle? Will there be a crossmember in the way of the front driveshaft once it's angle of operation is changed dramatically?

Driveshafts: You'll likely need them lengthened. If you cut-and-turn the front axle, you'll need a cv up top. Same in the rear. If you point the rear diff up a little, you'll need a cv at the top to eliminate the chance of vibration.

Replace your transmission/t-case mount (The rubber one) and both your motor mounts. Trust me on this one. The stress put on these mounts is tremendous, and the old ones break easily. (ask me how i know)

Good Luck!

HTH.

Rob

 

[woody]

check the cruiser facts section of ih8mud.com for some common part numbers too.

 

[muddogbob]

Thanks for the input guys.


I'm really debating on using the 2.5" OME springs or not. From what Henry says it might be too tall. Although I don't use the rig for hard core rockcrawling, I still take it on some slippery off camber stuff every now and then. Henry, do you think it would make a significat different to run 17" rims w/2" backspacing under the SOA OMEs? Also, you say at least 4.88s i'd rather not run 5.29s b/c of the griding/weakening. I'd like to get some gearmaster gears with the overdrive to make my 4.88s seem like 5.29s. Like I said I don't rock crawl, but I don run trails. I understand that gearing is key, but I'm not aware of any REASONABLE gearing options for my spit case/auto besides the gearmaster 3.05 drop ins. Please let me know of any other options.

Berne, how well do you think everthing will fit with the 38s and 2.5" springs? Also, what about drivetrain reliability turning those size tires? I've been looking at rear disck break options, but haven't seen anything too great. What setup are you running? The best be I can see is dropping $500 on a downey kit.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Dodge spring perches, #P4120074

Found in 20 seconds via IH8mud...

Good luck on your SOA. If I could recommend something, buy your shocks AFTER you figure out your shock lengths. Also make the mounts as long as possible, if possible... The Ford towers are a good option as well (certainly easier) but I made a custom set of my own that allowed for about 8-10" of travel IIRC.

 

[60seriesguy]

Thanks for the input guys.
Henry, do you think it would make a significat different to run 17" rims w/2" backspacing under the SOA OMEs? Also, you say at least 4.88s i'd rather not run 5.29s b/c of the griding/weakening. I'd like to get some gearmaster gears with the overdrive to make my 4.88s seem like 5.29s. Like I said I don't rock crawl, but I don run trails. I understand that gearing is key, but I'm not aware of any REASONABLE gearing options for my spit case/auto besides the gearmaster 3.05 drop ins. Please let me know of any other options.


I can't tell you if there's going to be a significant difference, I'm sure the 17" rims will make the rig more stable when aired-down, but I was referring to overall height vs. overall width, I think that end up being pretty tall. It's a personal choice, really, go with what you feel comfortable.

I haven't heard of the 5.29's being significantly weaker than the 4.88's, if you'e going to run ARBs you're going to have to grind BOTH. Sit down and crunch some numbers, I'm just afraid that you'll end up with too high a gear ratio, and let me tell you, not having enough compression braking to slow these big boats on a steep downhill is an interesting experience.

I haven't heard much about the Gearmaster, Brian Sullivan on this list was running a set but I don't remember much about his experience. I've heard they're very noisy, but other than that, I don't know much else.

 

[muddogbob]

Henry, what tire size and gear ratio are you planning on running. Also remember that I have the auto with an overdrive.

 

[60seriesguy]

I'm still waffling on tires and rims, but I'm definitely running 4.88's because I will not go above 37's. I'm going to need Longfields to pull off the 37's, so this is going to be an expensive little item:

$1,300 for tires and rims (assuming 37's)
$500 for gears and install kits
$500 to regear and add front ARB
$500 for Longfields
$450 for rear disk brakes (+/-)
$100 for new manual hubs

$3,350...OUCH!

 

[kruzrtek]

regarding your SOA questions.

Everyone has alot of great info and input. I am a cruiser technician all day, everyday. Specializing in engine conversions and suspension fabrications (not only lifts!). The best traction bar that I have ever had experience with in regards to strength, adjustability per your vehicle and no limiting articulation, is made by DJ's Traction Systems and Fabrication. www.dj40.com.
The site is not very good, but there is a picture of the traction
bars and they are basically self explanatory.
I would also definitely recommend that you take into consideration that you have a vehicle that is older and the springs have probably sagged an inch or two. so if were to put and good set of factory arched springs on your SOA then you will get a good 6" of lift plus the recommended extended shackles.
5" eye to eye = 1" of addt'l. lift. That should be more than plenty to clear your 37"ers! If I can help in any way, just let me know
The Phone number to DJ's is 801-463-1311. Ask for Dj or Richard.

[email protected]
[email protected]

 

[bernefj60]

Thanks for the input guys.

snip...
Berne, how well do you think everything will fit with the 38s and 2.5" springs? Also, what about drive train reliability turning those size tires? I've been looking at rear disc break options, but haven't seen anything too great. What setup are you running? The best be I can see is dropping $500 on a Downey kit.

The 36's fit fine without any lift. I do have SOME rubbing at full lock, but I still ramped like 875 with no name shocks on the back. The biggest thing will be that the springs will be NEW. I'll get more lift than just 2 1/2"; more like 3 1/2". The 38's will fit fine. Like you, I don't do any hardcore stuff, just GSMTR and National Forest stuff. Nothing big. Side hilling in my truck isn't *quite* as tippy as maybe in Henry's, but they're different animals. I ran my 60 for 4 months without shocks because I wanted to flatten the springs. That, and when I built it, I couldn't reach the center console from the ground.

IN terms of actually making the tires turn, I don't think I will have any problems. The 2F I have is warmed over and really pulls like you would not believe. I was going to do a full rebuild this summer, but I’m now considering just re-ringing it, checking the clearance on the bearings, and replacing the stuff that should be replaced (oil pump, etc). It runs too well to screw with. I will be adding fuel injection in some form, adding 4.88's, and the Fairey overdrive. I don't see any problem with turning 2200 rpm at 75 mph.

Reliability...hmmm...I hadn't really given it any thought, to be honest. It is a Toyota, right? Everything seems tight. I'll replace the u-joints (for the first time), replace my mounts (not for the first time), and just maintain it. With a truck this size and with those type of tires, you're constantly tightening things. I was shocked that within 100 of building the SO, every nut and bolt was loose. I spent at least 2 hours tightening everything.

Even now, I have to check my driveshaft bolt periodically, and I've taken out my front t-case output collar from things being too loose, so there are some issues, but like anything, you learn what works and what you have to deal with over time, and get used to it.

My truck has been my driver for 4 years Sprung-over either on 35's or 36's. I drove it for the first year I had it on 31's, but that sucked, so I try to block it from my memory. Driveline issues when it comes to reliability have been minimal, limited to motor mounts (drivers side - fairly common due to leverage), and usual wear and tear for a truck with 275K miles on it.

From my understanding, the disk brake "kit" for the 60's is still either in development, or stalled, at JTO. I bought the brackets, but because of the way the 60 axle is built, they need to be spaced further back toward the pumpkin (like 1/2" or 3/4") in order to clear the calipers and rotors. I've seen these brackets, and I know someone who has the prototypes, but I’ve heard nothing lately about them. I'm amassing parts for when my work area is finished this summer and I take some time off from work to work on my trucks. I'll keep the list posted as to where I finally find the bracketry. I'd like to stay all Toyota, just for parts interchangability, but there comes the issue of the e-brake. I'd like to see someone adapt the case mounted disc brake, but we'll see.

Since you truck is a 62, I don't what you can do as far as power goes. I would remove your catalytic converter (if it's legal )
and run the JBA look-alike shorty headers. I'm sure there is talk about power increases on the 3FE list constantly, so beyond increasing fuel and air, I can't tell you much.

Good luck.

Rob

 

[60seriesguy]

Rob, if you want to run the transfer-case mounted drum brake, you don't need to adapt anything, all the parts are still available from Toyota. Not cheap, of course, but it's an option, I think I saw them at Heart of Texas Offroad for under $400 for the whole kit.

I have yet to see someone running all-Toyota rear disk brakes on a SF rear axle without any reliability issues.

And it's not the springs that make my Cruiser sketchy on the off-camber stuff, it's the *height* that comes with those springs.

Personally, I've never seen a spring-over conversion on a 60 series using stock springs where the springs lasted more than a year. Bruce Miller (3dog) showed up at CM'00 with his Mark Whatley-bilt FJ60 and after *just the first day of wheeling* the springs were so buggered they had inverted and the truck leaned over like a wounded ship.

Which ever spring you decide to go with, make sure it's going to suit your purposes not just a year after the conversion, but more than that. Mine's been on there for three years and although they have no doubt sagged (about 2" from where I started), they're still holding their arch well.

 

[bernefj60]

Henry,

Thanks for the update. I hadn't realized that it was a possibility to buy the stuf off the shelf. Is it specific to the split case?

Will you elaborate on the reliability of the toyota rear discs?

I wasn't saying that your truck had stability issues, it's just a lot taller than mine. I also lack the relative experience with the ome springs, so i can't comment. I just think you need 38's Your truck would look kick-ass on some big honking meats.

I think that i'm also just used to the swinging my truck does in the offcamber stuff. I do remember you're truck being a lot more stable on the highway than mine.

When i do finally roll my 60 , i'll make a line on the dash the says "if the horizon matches this line, you're Phucked"

My springs, knock on wood, have held up surprisingly well for stock springs. I had the same fears when i first did it; that my springs would not hold up and that, sooner or later, i would be buying new springs.

I suppose i've just gotten lucky. I plan on having a custom setup made locally whent he time comes.

Having the benefit of 4 years of daily driving has given my quite a bit of windshield time to calculate my options and what i want out of my truck. I suspect most of us are looking for that cross between capability and reliabilty, without sacrificing strength.

TO change the subject a bit, what have y'all heard about Matkins frames?

rob

 

[60seriesguy]

The split-case was available on some markets with the drum brake; for example, some OZ-spec HJ47 and FJ45 troopies in the mid-1980's had it. So yes, they're off-the-shelf components and they do fit US-spec split cases. I always thought it would be a cool idea to put a second hand-brake lever, out of a 1979+ FJ40, on the hump and get the kit to convert the split-case, that would give you an additional parking brake (love redundant systems!).

What I've heard from Cruiserheads much smarter than me is that the problem with using Toyota front disk brakes on the rear axle is the floating vs. fixed caliper situation. I'm not exactly sure why, but there seems to be some problem with freeplay (or the lack thereof) when using the Toyota stuff. It may be a question of cost, but I would imagine that if this was easily doable, someone would have figured out how to do it easily and cheaply. It seems ridiculous to me to now want to have the same calipers and rotors front and rear for ease of repair and parts interchangeability, but cost may play a big part in this, a Toyota-only RDB *may* be a lot more expensive than using the Chevy components.

Back to the original topic, one of the reasons I've KEPT the OME springs despide the added height is the rig's stability on and off-road and the ride quality, crucial in a rig that pulls both DD and wheeling duties. My truck has very little if any body roll, the only displacement happens when the roof is heavily loaded. That's important to me, hence my reticense (sp?) to change the springs to lose height.

37's are so far the best RADIAL option available (again, read DD), so as long as these are the biggest availablee option that won't mess up the ride, I'll stick to these! Ditto for beadlocks; love the concept but not for a DD.

 

[bernefj60]

Ah ha, somewhere in the fog that is my memory, i recall talk of this concept of freeplay being an issue in the rdb setup. I'll dig.

I'm sure the cost of doing a toyota only setup is more than other avenues, i just like the idea of being all toyota, not to mention being able to swap front to rear, etc.

See, you actually have sway bars. Must be neat. I carry 500 pounds in the back at all times, and i have no problems, but the other day i put another 1000 pounds into her, and i had some issues with sway. (I'm going to need sway bars eventually - you got the links from Drew Persson, right? Website?)

Odd that it didn't sag and the ride was fine other than the fact that semi's made me bobble drunkenly.

Regretfully, she's gotten too big to drive to work every day - no can fit into the garage.

I picked up a 40 for those duties.
Rob

 

[60seriesguy]

I don't have the rear swaybar (axle housing is from a 1983 FJ60 that didn't have the mounts), just the front with the Persson quick disconnects. Unfortunately, Drew pulled out of the business and doesn't make them, but there are others out there, I've seen them on a couple of trucks. You'll have to do a bit of homework.

I'm with you, I'd prefer brake part interchangeability front and rear but I don't think it's really an option. I guess I always assumed that it couldn't be done because there's a lot of Cruiserheads much smarter than me out there, with more money and better resources.

I don't carry a lot of weight in it everyday but have had it loaded to the gills and towing an M416 "plus" that is no longer a 1/4 ton, and there still wasn't much sway, my rear springs are STIFF.

When did you get an FJ40? Got pics? That's sweet, man, I still remember you driving the big brown bomber!

 

[bernefj60]

Yeah, the big brown one was interesting. Perfect for college, that's about it. More fun than a fat girl and a case o'beer, but like all good things, it had to go.

Here's a pic:

Bone stock 1977. Nothing's been done, nothing's been changed, nada. Totally unmolested. hard to believe. I've even got the bill of sale and the radio block off plate.