Some feed back.... engine swap

I am putting a Ford 4.0 from an Aerostar in my LWB Sammy. I chose the Aerostar engine because it's a little lower profile than the Explorer setup so I won't have to lift the body as much to clear the hood. They make great low-end numbers (220ft-lbs @ 24000 RPM) despite what the horsepower numbers suggest. (165 hp @ 3600 RPM) The motor is a compact engine given it is a 60 degree V6 as opposed to say a Chevy 4.3 which is a 90 degree design. It will fit rather nicely and is not that heavy either.

The Ford drivetrain puts the front output on the driver side so you would need to do some fabbing to put a Toy axle in the front but it's not impossible. My buddy SASed his Nissan with a Toy axle that he cut and re-welded to put the pumpkin on the driver's side. If you are thinking you can keep the Sammy t-case in a divorced setup, that would probably need some work too. Even the shortest of the manual trannies will likely force you to push the t-case back a bit but then if you don't move the rear axle back as well, your driveshaft will be pretty short. I have a LWB model so I had extra room to play with AND I'm moving the rear axle back from its original location. I have a set of fullsize 78 Ford axles going under mine.(D44 front, 9" rear) HP driver's side drop to match my drivetrain which is a C5 automagic from an 84 Bronco II and my own homemade BW1350 double t-case setup. If your Ex is automatic, I do not recommend you use that tranny. The A4LD is notorious for being a weak transmission. (The other reason I chose the 4.0 is because MY Aerostar's tranny puked!:shaking: ) Find a manual to swap in or a C5 if you want an auto. C5 is just a C4 with a different bellhousing that fits the Cologne V6s (2.8, 2.9 and 4.0) and the tailhousing has the smaller bolt pattern to mate the RBV t-cases. (Ranger Based Vehicles)

I don't know what you want to use this truck for or what your budget is but I think a manual with a BW1350 t-case is pretty cheap and you can probably score some axles from a TJ that someone might be swapping out for D60s. I would take the Toy axle and move the diff over if it were my project though.


Sean

Thanks sean for all the input. Thats what I was looking for...

I didnt how ever think about the aero star engine... HMMMMM
I was thinking about the xploder because I have one in front of me, and its is a good runner. It is of the 4x4 type. Wich as you stated would flop me over to driver side drop.. But that would give me the option of running a high pinion front end... I am not opposed to that at all.. I also have a good shape 2x4 five speed out of another xploder that would allow me to fab up a short shaft to mate to maybe the stock zuk case or something like that.

As for the axles and wheel base. I do want to push the front forward at least 3 inches and maybe a little more. The back will got out maybe 5 or so..
I am thinking of using reversed toy springs out back with a dual shackle or a buggy spring set up... I am still researching this, so advice or in put is welcome and appreciated...

The front will most likely be YJ springs... they seem to work well.

Axles , I am still looking. I would like the front and possibly the rear to be high pinion, to help with drive line angles. But I am not going to break the bank on dyna tracks or anything like that.. I may end up cutting and joining junk yard stuff, but if I can decide on a set of factory stuff then I will go that route..

Well I have to go a grab the baby. But thanks again for the input and clearing up the low end numbers on the ford motor... Have a good night and take it easy... Jeremy

Nor Cal Wheelin said:

Thanks sean for all the input. Thats what I was looking for...

I didnt how ever think about the aero star engine... HMMMMM
I was thinking about the xploder because I have one in front of me, and its is a good runner. It is of the 4x4 type. Wich as you stated would flop me over to driver side drop.. But that would give me the option of running a high pinion front end... I am not opposed to that at all.. I also have a good shape 2x4 five speed out of another xploder that would allow me to fab up a short shaft to mate to maybe the stock zuk case or something like that.

As for the axles and wheel base. I do want to push the front forward at least 3 inches and maybe a little more. The back will got out maybe 5 or so..
I am thinking of using reversed toy springs out back with a dual shackle or a buggy spring set up... I am still researching this, so advice or in put is welcome and appreciated...

The front will most likely be YJ springs... they seem to work well.

Axles , I am still looking. I would like the front and possibly the rear to be high pinion, to help with drive line angles. But I am not going to break the bank on dyna tracks or anything like that.. I may end up cutting and joining junk yard stuff, but if I can decide on a set of factory stuff then I will go that route..

Well I have to go a grab the baby. But thanks again for the input and clearing up the low end numbers on the ford motor... Have a good night and take it easy... Jeremy

Click to expand...

No prob Jeremy.

Even if you can fit the 4.0 and a 2x4 tranny in front of the Sammy t-case, I'm not convinced that the Sammy t-case can take that kind of torque, and most likely not if you want to run some lower t-case gears in it.Just consider that the original Sammy engine put out 65 ft-lbs of torque through a 3.65: first gear so it was capable of taking about 240 ft-lbs of torque at the input. Even if we apply an engineering factor of 100% (meaning double, or about 500 ft-lbs at the input) a 4.0 through an M5OD's first gear ratio of 3.72:1 would put the torque level at just under 820 ft-lbs. It's not looking too good for the little Sammy t-case at all. The best you could do to make it as strong as possible is to cradle the t-case in Trail Tough's (http://www.trailtough.com/) Mighty Kong and use their Gorilla Grips t-case mounts. I don't think it's enough though.


One more thing. If you are going to push the front axle forward, you may want to look at another steering box. A great setup is an FJ steering box. The pitman arm faces forward and that would let you keep it in the stock location and outboard of the frame. I'm pushing mine forward as well and that is one of the solutions for me. The other is to run some reverse steering arms behind the axle for a rear-steer setup but I'm not sure if anybody makes them with enough rise to clear my HP diff and driveshaft.

There is another guy on here and a few other Zook boards that has done the Ford 4.0 swap. His handle is Zukibrothers and he can show you pics as well as share some info.


Sean

heres my new tin top with a 92 ranger 2.9l in it.....

4.0 should fit just fine.....i know the ranger guys do the swap from 2.9l to 4.0 all the time...thay say its a bolt in swap....so if this fits nice in mine....wel,...a 4.0 should too

picture of the mounts i made.




couple pictures of the 4.0 installed.



it is not necessary to cut the hood, i had done that late one night when i was frustrated because things weren't fitting like i wanted. i have since replaced the hood and the only thing i had to do was remove the latch on the front for radiator clearance. these pictures were taken very early on before i got everything fixed up the way i wanted it.


picture of my 2.8 that i had before the 4.0, a bit easier as you don't have to deal with the fuel injection.

Thats the critter I had in my head... and I must say thank you because I was just about to ask ya for a couple pics of the mounts that you made... I did some rough measurements and thought it would fit well... One question though, how does the c4 fit under the tranny tunnel?? The m 50 d that I have will fit in there well from the looks of it... But I dont have a c4 around here...

I wouldnt mind running an auto for the sake of saving in some gear reduction quality. Where should or what should I look in for a short shaft c4?? Also is that a straight bolt for the 4.0?? I dont like the later electronic bull shit autos that ford made... They just dont last. But the c4 and c6's were pretty stout.

I am suprised that the sammy case is working for you... I thought it would just come un-glued behind that much engine.

I will probably be in touch with off the wall questions as I progress with this build, and thanks again for the pics... I thought it would work, but a pic is worth a thousand words....

i got carried away with cutting the trany tunnell, i pretty much cut out the entire tunnel and made a new one, really wish i hadn't done that. i think all that is really necessary would be to cut some from the base of the trany tunnel on both sides, or widen with a big hammer, but i don't know for sure since i got sawzall happy.

as far as the short shaft c4, you will find it in late 60's to early 70's 2wheel drive e150, f150 vans/trucks with a 300 straight 6 or 302. then you need to find a c4 from a late 70's mustang 2 with a 2.8. you then combine parts of the two to get a short shaft c4 that will bolt to your 4.0.

i have done it two different ways. for my brothers 2.8 powered samurai we just bolted the bell housing from the mustang c4 to the short shaft c4 trany and it worked fine. for my 4.0 we actually removed input & output shaft and tail cone from the short shaft c4 and installed them in the mustang 2 trany, which is what i believe is the better way as the mustang 2 trany is a bit smaller in size and fits a bit better in the trany tunnell. if this isn't clear, don't be afraid to ask me more questions.

it might also be good idea to contact tim lund at wild west off-road. i bought his kit to install my 2.8 in my samurai. i then modified his kit slightly to install my 4.0. this is where i got the instructions on how to modify the trany, and would be helpfull as my memory may not be 100% correct.

another note, in the picture of the mounts i said i made, the two mounts that bolt to the frame, i did not make, i got them in the kit i bought from wild west off-road for the 2.8 install.

60* V-6s are a walk in the park to install.They are short and narrow,allowing plenty of room for headers/manifolds and cooling/accessories.Of course there are always variations of every engine,some being more compact than others...some might fit easily and others may not fit at all.

When I did my 2.8L swap,I made sure to keep everything as compact as possible...best befitting for a Samurai.
I went with a later model engine with a serpentine belt to save space.I now run P/S and on-board air,along with the standard belt driven accesories,all off of one compact multirib.
Multi-port would have saved me some vertical space,but I wanted TBI for its simplicty.The stock aircleaner fits under the hood,and ensures CA smog compliance.
I cut down some legal Edelbrock headers and converted them to block huggers to save space.I now have over an 1" of space between the pipes and the steering shaft,and enough room on the pass side that I coule change the starter from above.
The T-5 tranny and D300 T-case are both compact enough to fit in the Samurai.I only had to tweek the tunnel a little,and use a 2" body lift.The Dana300 fits very well,and is short enough to allow a stock or near stock wheelbase.
2 years ago when the engine first went in.Before I added any accessories...


T-5 and D300....


How it looks recently,right before I added on-board air....

a couple more pictures i found.

i had removed the body to help with the design of the mounts, might be usefull for you to see how i put stuff together.