Pirate 4x4 banner

141 - 160 of 1017 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Discussion Starter #141
https://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/

This 1996 Toyota 4Runner Proves IFS Doesn’t Have to Be Weak

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/2420234-ifs-stronger-better-options-now.html

post #27. it is a really nice setup, saw it out there at the first trail hero, hopefully it is out there again this year. I would love to do this to my wifes car :laughing: it would beat the hell out of a solid axle for a 99% street rig, saving my pennies now so it will probably be a decade and fully fleshed out design by the time I can get to it


edit: so FROR is using "03 and up" front end parts, this thread being about an 06 should match and be buildable that way. like I said, I've never paid much attention to the newer stuff.
Great compilation of threads! I spoke with Brian about this months ago and it sounds similar to our current plan - but our RCVs will be stronger! Toyota 8", next gen RCVs, ARB. And we'll have ATRAC (unless it becomes a hinderance) to help save the front diff.

If you all see anything different in his setup, let me know. Here's what I got from the article:

"Under the 3/16-inch-thick skidplate, Ellinger replaced the 7 1/2-inch front differential with an 8-inch differential from a later model 4Runner along with a custom intermediate shaft, housing, and mounts. It uses 4.88 gears and an ARB Air Locker with super-strong chromoly RCV axleshafts that are 30-spline throughout (like an upgraded Toyota solid axle) to make the whole thing live, even with 37-inch-tall tires. Tacomas use the same front axle components, and all of these parts are interchangeable."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,646 Posts
You just quoted the article, what would we know that's any different...you talked to him :rolleyes:

This thread is like a trainwreck of stupidity I can't stay away from
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Discussion Starter #143 (Edited)
You just quoted the article, what would we know that's any different...you talked to him :rolleyes:

This thread is like a trainwreck of stupidity I can't stay away from
I spoke with him Months Ago (see post above), long before our plans were laid. At that time, we were aiming for a F9 or a custom Diamond IFS Center, but it didn't work out. We spoke about this 8" setup briefly, but I wonder if others on here know more. If I'm not missing anything, then our current plans are confirmed.

And I cannot help but respond to your comments - I've been biting my tongue for a while now. You have 25K+ posts on Pirate - I hope at least some small percentage of them have been productive. Otherwise, you have wasted a ton of time. Given your comments of this build thread, why don't you just unsubscribe?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Discussion Starter #144 (Edited)
I'm not meaning to be a dick about it, just pointing out what we're all seeing here.

Maybe you and your team are getting ready to start cutting, gutting, fabbing, and making this an actual race car.

All we're seeing are minor bolt-on mods and a reluctance to really tear into the car. I truly hope you prove us wrong.
Hey, I get it - patience is the key. And believe me, I am more anxious to tear into it than anyone else on here. I'm about to post a small update below.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Discussion Starter #145 (Edited)
Update:
I've been out of town the past week, but here is a quick update on this build:
1) Our new Warn ZEON Platinum 10-S winch arrived yesterday. It's a thing of beauty and the remote will definitely come in handly for our co-driver at KOH!



2) I knocked out a few small projects, including swapping in a new O2 sensor damaged when we did the Y-Pipe cat delete (this 4.7L V8 is really squeezed in there). The new sensor eliminted the CEL I was getting. I'm still waiting on the URD MAF Calibrator to arrive and will install my AEM gauges before we do final tuning.



3) The Salvage doors arrive on Wed. Then I'll check out the internal bracing and see how much more we want to cut. I'm hoping they are really light in already gutted condition.

4) We are now only down to one sponsor need for tires. I've reached out to BFG, Goodyear, Maxxis, Nitto, Cooper, and Falken. So far Falken and Maxxis have shown strongest interest.

5) I've finalized plans with two additional sponsors. More to come on these in a few weeks.

Finally, the DD should be back from paint by the end of next week at the latest and ready for reassembly. As soon as it is done, the interior tear-down on this one will begin along with the doors and front fenders. Then the transformation will really begin to take shape. Thanks for your patience!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
29,409 Posts
I spoke with him Months Ago (see post above), long before our plans were laid. At that time, we were aiming for a F9 or a custom Diamond IFS Center, but it didn't work out. We spoke about this 8" setup briefly, but I wonder if others on here know more. If I'm not missing anything, then our current plans are confirmed.

And I cannot help but respond to your comments - I've been biting my tongue for a while now. You have 25K+ posts on Pirate - I hope at least some small percentage of them have been productive. Otherwise, you have wasted a ton of time. Given your comments of this build thread, why don't you just unsubscribe?
I only saw his rig in 2016, so your information is more current than mine other than it seems to have been holding up well for the last couple of years of use and abuse :smokin:

there was a glitch in time and space, i've probably got 25k posts in chit-chat that magically appeared one day :laughing: post count doesn't equal anything on this board. they'd turn it off, but then the :spam: bots would just do more hotlinking
 

·
Fab Junky
Joined
·
498 Posts
Why not break new ground and figure out how to stuff a Tundra 9” front IFS diff in this build, lead not follow. Even better would be the complete Tundra drivetrain, it pretty serious beef. I also want to advise against retaining the ABS and therefore ATRAC. Every Toyota ABS I have dealt with is very sensitive and makes stopping in the dirt dangerous because it kicks in way to early. ATRAC is also worthless if the rotors get wet or muddy. Go find my Tundra build thread and you will see why. I will never rely on fake lockers again, they will fail you when you need them the most. Three wheel drive at Johnson Valley equals more winching than you will ever want in a lifetime.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,646 Posts
I spoke with him Months Ago (see post above), long before our plans were laid. At that time, we were aiming for a F9 or a custom Diamond IFS Center, but it didn't work out. We spoke about this 8" setup briefly, but I wonder if others on here know more. If I'm not missing anything, then our current plans are confirmed.

And I cannot help but respond to your comments - I've been biting my tongue for a while now. You have 25K+ posts on Pirate - I hope at least some small percentage of them have been productive. Otherwise, you have wasted a ton of time. Given your comments of this build thread, why don't you just unsubscribe?
I used to contribute a lot to this site back when people did build threads galore and there was a lot of tech being shared since the aftermarket was A LOT smaller. I have been out of the "hardcore" side of this for well over a decade and prefer my mild wheeler/camping rig. I have been around this hobby for a long long time and built/helped build a few rigs, was on an XRRA/KOH team forever ago as well.

My opinion of what your are attempting here, while admirable, is more keyboard clatter than a build. We are on page 3 now and you have installed an O2 sensor and an exhaust while chasing sponsors and ordering up a winch and some extra doors. There is no chance this will be done in time, let alone competitive, tested and ready to race KOH. Good luck and I hope you prove me wrong. Won't be the fits time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
-I dig it so build it like you want. Everyone has to learn their own way; for some of us it's the hard way but it's the only way we know. I get it.
-With that said, this a heck of an under taking and sounds like you're going learn a ton of things as result of the build including practicality. You're building a race truck not a dream trail truck. A race truck gets the shit beat out of it unmercifully but still has to get the job done while you can take it easy enough on a trail truck that you have the luxury of trying to maintain something a bit more refined. Don't get me wrong, maintaining a clean-ish race truck is possible but more for a really seasoned guy. Don't take things ridiculously seriously (not saying you are) and remember to have fun with it.
-Most of the guys on this board are full of shit so listen to your gut and those you trust. Good luck with the build.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Discussion Starter #151
Why not break new ground and figure out how to stuff a Tundra 9” front IFS diff in this build, lead not follow. Even better would be the complete Tundra drivetrain, it pretty serious beef. I also want to advise against retaining the ABS and therefore ATRAC. Every Toyota ABS I have dealt with is very sensitive and makes stopping in the dirt dangerous because it kicks in way to early. ATRAC is also worthless if the rotors get wet or muddy. Go find my Tundra build thread and you will see why. I will never rely on fake lockers again, they will fail you when you need them the most. Three wheel drive at Johnson Valley equals more winching than you will ever want in a lifetime.
We've thought about the Tundra 9" diff for a while now. I just wonder how much stronger it'd be and if we can even fit it.

And remember we're running a ARBs front and rear. We're just trying to keep ATRAC so we can save the ARB for only when we need it to help keep wear and tear down on the front diff.

And I'm pretty certain there won't be much mud at JV in Feb. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Discussion Starter #152 (Edited)
I used to contribute a lot to this site back when people did build threads galore and there was a lot of tech being shared since the aftermarket was A LOT smaller. I have been out of the "hardcore" side of this for well over a decade and prefer my mild wheeler/camping rig. I have been around this hobby for a long long time and built/helped build a few rigs, was on an XRRA/KOH team forever ago as well.

My opinion of what your are attempting here, while admirable, is more keyboard clatter than a build. We are on page 3 now and you have installed an O2 sensor and an exhaust while chasing sponsors and ordering up a winch and some extra doors. There is no chance this will be done in time, let alone competitive, tested and ready to race KOH. Good luck and I hope you prove me wrong. Won't be the fits time.
Thanks for your reply - it's the nicest one I've seen from you. I can see your point of view, but you also don't have the luxury of seeing what all is going on behind the scenes. More on that below.

And as mentioned in my first few posts, I'm the kind of person that always finishes what I start. This build will be done in time, tested, and ready to race in Feb! Will it be competitive - I certainly hope and pray so!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,646 Posts
What exactly are you meaning by wear and tear on the front diff? I do not see ATRAC helping out for this build. ARB off except when in the rocks and stay off the stupid pedal. Get good with a winch, I see a lot of time wasted to poor/no winch strategy.

If it were me and I was entering this class my first purchase would be a Gigglepin and making it fit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Discussion Starter #154
-I dig it so build it like you want. Everyone has to learn their own way; for some of us it's the hard way but it's the only way we know. I get it.
-With that said, this a heck of an under taking and sounds like you're going learn a ton of things as result of the build including practicality. You're building a race truck not a dream trail truck. A race truck gets the shit beat out of it unmercifully but still has to get the job done while you can take it easy enough on a trail truck that you have the luxury of trying to maintain something a bit more refined. Don't get me wrong, maintaining a clean-ish race truck is possible but more for a really seasoned guy. Don't take things ridiculously seriously (not saying you are) and remember to have fun with it.
-Most of the guys on this board are full of shit so listen to your gut and those you trust. Good luck with the build.
Good advice. This build will be a bit different - it certainly won't be a beater race truck, which my sponsors would have zero interest in.

Priority #1 is performing great at KOH and we're on track there with some amazing fabricators and parts!

Priority #2 is sticking with my original vision (not another KOH buggy) and having a race vehicle the "Everyman" can actually relate to - with IFS front suspension - that performs great when it matters, on race day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Discussion Starter #155 (Edited)
I thought it may help to give a glimpse into the behind the scenes a little more. If you're only watching this thread for the hardcore stuff that is yet to come, skip this post.

From what I know so far, here is what it takes to make something like this Steel City Racing KOH project happen! Since I really committed to this build in May, I've spent a lot of time:
- Reading the Ultra4 rulebook 3-4 times and making lists of everything I have to get done to pass tech and stay within the 4600 class rules
- Creating a budget and a "dream build" list of To-Dos that fit the vision of this build and the 4600 class rules
- Pulling together the story of this project, which was critical for grabbing initial sponsor interest
- Filling out sponsorship paperwork, online forms, and legal documents - probably 50 forms filled out in total
- Building momentum with sponsors. Once you land 2-3, it does get easier.
- Landing sponsors, we are now up to 15 with 1 mandatory (Tires) sponsor remaining and 3 optional ones outstanding
- Creating relationships with groups like Marlin Crawler and RockSolidToys who believe in your vision and are willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen. Without BigMike and Wyatt in particular - and their willingness to connect us with others in the industry and build amazing parts for this rig - this build would be tough!

In today's age, the currency is no longer build-threads on forums. I'm doing build threads like this for ideas, diversity of thought, and because I think they are mostly extinct today which is a shame. Instead, it's social media that brings sponsors to the table. So, I had to:
- Create a rendering of how the vehicle will look
- Create social media campaigns for Facebook and Instagram (more time consuming than I had expected)
- Get the word out on forums, family & friends, and with Toyota enthusiasts.
- Constantly post new content to keep the interest (tough some days)

I then was finally able to get rolling - so, I started
- Looking for a no-rust, low mileage, affordably priced 4th gen v8 4x4 Sport or Limited (much harder to find than expected)
- Finishing my DD so I can tear into this one (still have a few weeks left - it's in Paint now)

We entered Phase I - Engine Performance, which I could do while the DD wasn't complete:
- Install Magnaflow exhaust, URD y-pipe with cat delete, new Denso O2 sensors, aFe Power air intake, URD 170 degree thermostat, AEM AFR and Fuel Pressure gauges, Doug Torley Headers (not yet installed), and URD MAF Calibrator (in the mail)

At the same time, I am still acquiring parts:
- The Warn ZEON 10-S Platinum winch arrived
- Fiberwerx Fenders are in the mail
- Front seats and harnesses are in the mail (seat brackets arrived)
- Salvage doors arrive on a 18-wheeler today (still looking for a liftgate)

Once the DD is done in a few weeks, I can tear out the 4th gen interior and remove exterior stuff, remove the stock doors, start on the fuel system, and work on armor (more to come here with a sponsor I just landed on Monday).

As we speak, the following is also in process:
- Rear RJ60 is ordered and being built
- Front suspension prototype should be complete in the next 2-4 weeks
- Front steering prototype is on the same timeline
- Front RCV Next Gen axle shafts are being engineered but won't be ready till the Fall
- Rear bumper prototype is being engineered and will be ready in the Fall
- Atlas II is being ordered
- Rear 4-Link is done and ready to be installed once the front suspension is on
- Coilovers, Coils, and Shocks are ready to go once the suspension is on
- Tires (still need a sponsor here) and Wheels will be ordered
- Driveshafts are envisioned and final specs will be dialed in once the suspension is on and final angles/measurements can be taken
- Roll cage is envisioned

All of that while balancing family life and running a small business. Note that the 4runner will be in CA for the real fabrication, starting in August.

So, if you're just looking at pictures, I think you may not be seeing the full story of what all has gone into this build thus far.

Lastly, as a shameless plug, if you want to help this build to keep up momentum with happy sponsors, please follow it on IG and FB and tell your friends. We need more followers - which will come from word of mouth from forum members like you and with momentum once the "sexy" fabrication side of the build really takes off. Social media is today's sponsorship currency, period!

And please PM me with any ideas or contacts you may have for Tire Sponsorship!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Discussion Starter #156
What exactly are you meaning by wear and tear on the front diff? I do not see ATRAC helping out for this build. ARB off except when in the rocks and stay off the stupid pedal. Get good with a winch, I see a lot of time wasted to poor/no winch strategy.

If it were me and I was entering this class my first purchase would be a Gigglepin and making it fit
Here's the plan:
- Regular 4x4 in the Desert.
- ATRAC Front/Rear ARB on when slow in the rocks (only kicks in at slower speeds and acts as a limited slip).
- Front/Rear ARB on when ATRAC doesn't suffice in the rocks.
- Winch (via Warn sponsorship and the new ZEON 10-S Platinum posted above) when ARB doesn't get it done in the rocks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,646 Posts
You won't be tearing into this until late August and expect to be at KOH in February and be competitive? Oh and get LOTS of testing in?

You have lost me again with a long winded post with the same broken record BS nobody cares to read here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,646 Posts
Here's the plan:
- Regular 4x4 in the Desert.
- ATRAC Front/Rear ARB on when slow in the rocks (only kicks in at slower speeds and acts as a limited slip).
- Front/Rear ARB on when ATRAC doesn't suffice in the rocks.
- Winch (via Warn sponsorship and the new ZEON 10-S Platinum posted above) when ARB doesn't get it done in the rocks.
How does ATRAC work when you replace the entire carrier with an ARB? I would assume you just lost you limited slip installing a full carrier air locker. Am I wrong here?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Discussion Starter #159 (Edited)
How does ATRAC work when you replace the entire carrier with an ARB? I would assume you just lost you limited slip installing a full carrier air locker. Am I wrong here?
Yes, pasted from another post above.

"ATRAC uses brake control to essentially keep a "limited slip" type setup in the front. With ATRAC, the front diff is open, which allows us to put in an ARB locker in the front so we have the best of both. If the ABS gets in the way, we'll scrap ATRAC and just have ARB in the front.

We'd plan on using the ATRAC limited slip in the front for moderate speed areas (it disables at high speed) and then engage the front ARB for the hardest sections.

Some say ATRAC is crap - others think it could make all the difference at KOH.

From a Toyota forum:
"ATRAC's sole purpose is to provide near equal wheel speeds without over stressing the drive line or brakes."
"The big difference between ATRAC and a locker is that you will lose a little momentum with ATRAC because the wheel needs to slip first before it activates. This all happens very quickly but sometimes momentum is the key...Lockers provide equal torque all the time, when engaged."
"I found ATRAC very effective with moderate and extreme wheeling. My use goes something like this: ATRAC on all the time, on hard obstacles, rear locker used 20%, front locker on 5% of the time."

As mentioned, we'll have both. And of course, the rear will have an ARB. There will be no open diffs!"
 
141 - 160 of 1017 Posts
Top