[pitter]

I just sased a 1994 2wd 22re truck. the truck has an ifs steering box, with highsteer and a toyota mini truck front axle.


if you let go of the wheel for a second and the tires start to turn. either left or right, 1 second later its full lock and your almost in the ditch. I am assuming there is something wrong with the steering box, anyone know what the problem is?

with or without a steering stabilizer this happens.

I never took the box apart. It came with the highsteer I bought. not sure what year steering box it is.

 

[djelliott916]

Caster angle?

 

[pitter]

truck has 35's and 1/8 toe in.

not sure the caster angle. the front hanger is 3" from the bottom of the frame to the center of the bolt for the springs. shackles are 5" eye to eye.

 

[mobil1syn]

pictures

 

[NorCalPR]

I bet your caster angle is backwards...

 

[djelliott916]

truck has 35's and 1/8 toe in.

not sure the caster angle. the front hanger is 3" from the bottom of the frame to the center of the bolt for the springs. shackles are 5" eye to eye.

I bet your caster angle is backwards...

Yup!

 

[am4x4]

But I bet your front drive drive line angle is bitchin because you went ahead and pointed your pinion up at the transfer case.

If you don't know what caster is I suggest you google it...then get some

 

[djelliott916]

But I bet your front drive drive line angle is bitchin because you went ahead and pointed your pinion up at the transfer case.

If you don't know what caster is I suggest you google it...then get some

Perhaps were all wrong and they call it "castor"?

 

[TruckinT]

Perhaps were all wrong and they call it "castor"?

In the racing world, it's caster, castor makes me think of castor oil :flipoff2:

This exact problem happens to a lot of people when they SAS a truck. The problem is that the leafs or shims used reduce the stock caster angle from positive (top of knuckle farther to the rear than bottom) towards negative (top of knuckle farther forward than the bottom). Caster has a huge effect on self centering characteristics of the steering, and this problem is greatly exaggerated by larger tires. So essentially what happens is that the truck is set up to turn in much quicker and with less steering force than before. This is why race cars are set up with more negative caster than street cars, they would rather sacrifice straight line stability for a quicker turn in. So when you say that your truck wants to continue turning on its own, this is exactly what is happening, you have too little caster (or too much depending on how you view it). To rectify your problem, you need to add positive caster. A good starting point if I remember is somewhere around 7* positive for 35" and above tires.

The next issue now becomes the work involved to get this correct caster angle. The correct way to do it is cut off your balls, rotate to your desired angle and weld them back on. The easier way is to cut off the spring perches, rotate the whole axle to desired angle and weld them back, but this tends to lead to pinion oiling issues and is not recommended.

 

[Wilson]

The next issue now becomes the work involved to get this correct caster angle. The correct way to do it is cut off your balls, rotate to your desired angle and weld them back on. The easier way is to cut off the spring perches, rotate the whole axle to desired angle and weld them back, but this tends to lead to pinion oiling issues and is not recommended.

Wrong on about all of this. He needs to first find out what his caster angle is. You are correct that the proper and permanent way to fix it is to cut and turn the knuckle balls, however in most cases and for most people steel shims bolted into the leaf pack work just fine. It would be near impossible to rotate the perches on a toy housing and the pinion would have to be pointed pretty damn far upwards to cause oiling issues, especially on a part time 4wd axle.

 

[TruckinT]

Wrong on about all of this. He needs to first find out what his caster angle is. You are correct that the proper and permanent way to fix it is to cut and turn the knuckle balls, however in most cases and for most people steel shims bolted into the leaf pack work just fine. It would be near impossible to rotate the perches on a toy housing and the pinion would have to be pointed pretty damn far upwards to cause oiling issues, especially on a part time 4wd axle.

My mistake, you are correct about the toy axle, my mind was envisioning a fabricated housing when I typed it.

 

[am4x4]

In the racing world, it's caster, castor makes me think of castor oil :flipoff2:

This exact problem happens to a lot of people when they SAS a truck. The problem is that the leafs or shims used reduce the stock caster angle from positive (top of knuckle farther to the rear than bottom) towards negative (top of knuckle farther forward than the bottom). Caster has a huge effect on self centering characteristics of the steering, and this problem is greatly exaggerated by larger tires. So essentially what happens is that the truck is set up to turn in much quicker and with less steering force than before. This is why race cars are set up with more negative caster than street cars, they would rather sacrifice straight line stability for a quicker turn in. So when you say that your truck wants to continue turning on its own, this is exactly what is happening, you have too little caster (or too much depending on how you view it). To rectify your problem, you need to add positive caster. A good starting point if I remember is somewhere around 7* positive for 35" and above tires.

The next issue now becomes the work involved to get this correct caster angle. The correct way to do it is cut off your balls, rotate to your desired angle and weld them back on. The easier way is to cut off the spring perches, rotate the whole axle to desired angle and weld them back, but this tends to lead to pinion oiling issues and is not recommended.

Increasing caster without rotating the knuckle balls would rotate the pinion DOWN which would increase oiling to the pinion

 

[TruckinT]

Increasing caster without rotating the knuckle balls would rotate the pinion DOWN which would increase oiling to the pinion

It's backwards day didn't you know?! :flipoff2:
I'll just shut up, my experience comes from race cars and I'm obviously failing at reversing the theories between disciplines lol

 

[Provience]

Full hydraulic steering.

 

[pitter]

with truck frame sitting at zero on my awesome harbour freight angle finder the pinion says 86* the top of the steering arm says positive 5*, since i have to lift up the back of the angle finder toward the shackle to make the angle finder say zero.


I was showing a buddy today. the steering is super easy. and I am guessing its something in the steering box or pump. on flat ground with full wight on the tires i can pull on the wheel a little and let go and the tires will turn to full lock by themselves. it works better than the hydro assist on my other toyota.

I have an extra steering box and pump, I am going to try and figure out the problem.

 

[89lc]

Is the axle centered in relation to the frame?

 

[Mr Stubs]

Is the axle centered in relation to the frame?

That would make some cool tracks in the snow!!!

 

[am4x4]

with truck frame sitting at zero on my awesome harbour freight angle finder the pinion says 86* the top of the steering arm says positive 5*, since i have to lift up the back of the angle finder toward the shackle to make the angle finder say zero.


I was showing a buddy today. the steering is super easy. and I am guessing its something in the steering box or pump. on flat ground with full wight on the tires i can pull on the wheel a little and let go and the tires will turn to full lock by themselves. it works better than the hydro assist on my other toyota.

I have an extra steering box and pump, I am going to try and figure out the problem.

Sounds like we were wrong, 5* is about all you can get out of these without turning the knuckle balls and it should be plenty to keep it steering decent.

When you were showing your buddy was the truck moving or sitting still? It can't be the pump, all it does is make pressure, it does not have any control over the steering. Must be in the box.

 

[cryptic toy]

with truck frame sitting at zero on my awesome harbour freight angle finder the pinion says 86* the top of the steering arm says positive 5*, since i have to lift up the back of the angle finder toward the shackle to make the angle finder say zero.


I was showing a buddy today. the steering is super easy. and I am guessing its something in the steering box or pump. on flat ground with full wight on the tires i can pull on the wheel a little and let go and the tires will turn to full lock by themselves. it works better than the hydro assist on my other toyota.

I have an extra steering box and pump, I am going to try and figure out the problem.

Did you level your truck with blocks / thin plywood under the tires to achieve 0 degrees on the frame? Or is your angle finder able to zero out? Just a thought so you don't get screwed up adding and subtracting

 

[Wilson]

Sounds like we were wrong, 5* is about all you can get out of these without turning the knuckle balls and it should be plenty to keep it steering decent.

When you were showing your buddy was the truck moving or sitting still? It can't be the pump, all it does is make pressure, it does not have any control over the steering. Must be in the box.

I agree