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Discussion Starter #1
Guys, I have searched and read until I am tired. I have problems with my newly setup steering. I am running a Saginaw pump, Celica box and 35s. I can't seem to keep the pump from boiling. Something whines like hell and when bound it kills the engine.

I have bled the lines and checked the box and pump. Pump is brand new, the box was just rebuilt. I removed the linkage and the box turns easily by hand. I removed the belt and the pump turns with more effort than the box. I tried spinning the pulley, can't get it to turn one full revolution before it stops on its own. I also hear/feel a clicking noise in the pump when turned both directions by hand.

I see going hydro assist in the short term, but I don't want to put a bandaid on this problem. I don't want to go with coolers or another box when I might be closer to a workable solution.

I think this setup should atleast work on the trails for longer than 15 minutes. Several claim this setup should work on the trail and with minimal rock crawling. Do I need to realign my expectations.

This setup last worked with a kick pump, celica box and 33s just fine. I think there is something wrong with this new pump.

What do you think?
 

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Originally I thought you have too much pump for the box. It’s a bad idea to “dead head” pumps, which is were the pump is pumping against “a wall”. You don’t get enough circulation and the fluid overheats and boils. This kills pumps.

But after you described turning the pump with your hand, then stopping - I’m suspecting the pump is bad. The clicking noise has me believing the pump was faulty to begin with or that it self destructed because it was over worked. Maybe a stuck check valve, not opening up or set too tight, but that wouldn’t explain the clicking. I don’t know much about power steering pumps, but I design a lot of pump systems at work, (mostly water and sewer). If the pump is too big, your definitely going to need a cooler.

Can you swap in a new pump to trouble shoot?
Keep in mind that you might burn that one up too.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I don't have a pump to swap and don't really want to spend more money on another pump just for troubleshooting. I was kinda hoping to get some good feedback from someone that has been 'there and done that'. I think I am kinda caught in the middle. I have a cooler, I might try that... but, who wants to deal with a cooler to compensate for some other problem. Surely someone has tried my setup before... and hopefully have it working. Thanks...
 

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Can you open it up Saginaw pumps and have a look? That's what I did with one of my (Celica) pumps.

I was amazed at how simple it was in there. It's just a cam shaft riding in a cavity. Bearings were at the front in the top cover, and around the circumference of the cam in the main body of the pump were about eight to ten (can't remember exactly) little steel "locators" held in place by vertical slots, and pushed out against the cam with little springs.

There were lots of bits and pieces, but they were all the same, just replicas of each other. Dead simple.

The one big O-ring between the two pump sections deteriorates with heat and age and leaks there.

The small O-rings on all the bolts don't seem to leak that I have noticed, but are very easy to replace if they ever do.

Getting a replacement bearing for the front cover is proving a challenge, and the wear on the bearing surface of the cam is noticeable-possibly leading to eventual leakage through to the front. (behind the pulley nut)

Is maybe the clicking you hear, (and/or the cause of overheating) the bearing being faulty in the front of your pump?

Also, regardless of what you do to resolve the problem, IMHO you should get a cooler *anyway*!
 

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SilverZuk said:
..... I don’t know much about power steering pumps, but I design a lot of pump systems at work, (mostly water and sewer).....
OMG, you aren't a "terd herder" too are you? :D

I agree that the problem is that your pump is "dead-heading". If the system gets hot when you are running the engine but not turning the wheel, I would say it is a plugged or restricted orifice in the box. If it overheats from working the steering on minor day-to-day use, I would say that your dump-valve is set too high or stuck and not working. If it is overheating from heavy use, then your pump and/or your box is undersized. You have a vane-style pump and as long as it is allowed to move the fluid, it might get hot but shouldn't overheat. If you lock up the steering and keep cranking the wheel, or have a problem causing reduced flow volume in the system (i.e. "dead-heading your pump), you will produce lots of heat fast. I had several Celica boxs, and IMHO you should go with a bigger box if you are going to run 35's. Scwafish's had a Celica box that exhibited symptoms identical to yours. It would boil the fluid over in a thirty second trip around his cul-de-sac.
 

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My new setup is exhibiting similar problems, but only under hard useage (i.e. downhill turning in 4 low). I am using Spidertrax's new AGR pump and a Toyota Cressida box that I rebuilt. I am running a small cooler and it works fine driving around town but as soon as I lock in the front wheels (only 33 BFG AT's) it balks. Can I modify the Cressida box I have to handle the higher flow? Is there another inside of the frame box that will handle the high-flow AGR pump? Or am I going to have to cut my fenders and do a FJ outside the frame mod ala' scwa?

Help this newbie, please!
 

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terrymac said:
.... Can I modify the Cressida box I have to handle the higher flow? Is there another inside of the frame box that will handle the high-flow AGR pump? Or am I going to have to cut my fenders and do a FJ outside the frame mod ala' scwa?
I don't think you can "modify" the box to handle/harness the higher flow and pressure. I would recommend another box. The FJ-60 box is a good choice and fairly simple to mount. The Toyota IFS and a few other boxes work well also, but are a little more complicated to get setup. As far as mounting the FJ-60 box, you don't need to cut anything. Just make a plate for the frame, sleeve the holes, and bolt her up. You will find that the pitman arm will need replacing though. It has around a 4" drop :eek:
 

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Thats exactly what my Spidertrax/AGR/Celica combo did too. Sounds like they just don't get along. My pump is much happier with the FJ box. Maybe the Celica boxes just don't flow enough and are causing dead head symptoms.

My Celica box was happier with the kick pump, although it would over heat too during hard crawling.
 

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FWIW Rick ( OTT Rick ) has been running a ( 4 bolt "76" ) saginaw steering box off of a tercel ( power rack and pinion ) pump with no problems for a looong time now.... no overheating probs, the pump is a remote reservoir style, the pulley matches the 1600 serpentine belt perfectly..... and one finger steering with 36" tsl SX...:) :D
 

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nozuk said:
put hydro flued in it
That makes the over heating worse....


I say put a cooler in line, try using full synthetic power steering fluid also. You probably burned your pump up, either get a new one, or reseal that one.

I have used Kick stuff for years and have never had problems with it, I still use the kick pump for my full hydro steering.

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Discussion Starter #13
I put a cooler on it yesterday, but wasn't really able to test it due to experiencing a rough idle engine problem.... it never stops. The cooler will definitely help. I wish I could test whether the pump is working properly so that I don't get another pump just to find out it performs the same way. I will probably just go hydro assist... that should minimize some of the over working.
 

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I'm not trying to divert attention from Spiderzuks probs, but considering mine are similar...

I used Hydo fluid in my Spidertrax/AGR/Toyota setup, bad idea? I heard it would work better, maybe I had bad info. While I haven't notice any boiling or foaming, I do get fluid coming out of the small hole in the cap (presumably an overheating exscape hole?), not a significant amount, but overflow none the less.

Terry
 

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Dude your pump is screwed. You said that you can only turn a little ways before it stops? that is a bad thing. It should turn freely.
As afr as the pump dedheading as you guys are calling it, that is a very slim possibility but it could happen. My wife is running almost the same setup and we have no problems.

Replace the pump.
 

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Wadda you know about power steering except more than all of us combined.

God has spoken...its time to get a new pump...for free!!!:mad:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Finally got my truck running so that I can test the new AGR pump... looks like I am still having the same problem. Now I am leaning toward rebuilding the box. After working a couple of hours, I couldn't seem to bleed all the air out of the system... I am thinking that box is allowing it to get in. Although, this is strange... I don't see any major fluid leaks and have checked all of my fittings. Now I need to figure out exactly what box I have... I assumed it was a celica but not sure. Anyone know how to tell for sure? I eventually be doing hydro assist, but I think I need to get the air leak fixed anyway.

Comments?
 
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