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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay I searched a bit and found unrelated threads. I have the "heavy duty" P/S pump cardone # 206244 on my rig.

I am researching going full hydro and wasn't sure if this pump is up to the tasks. While the external appearance looks the same as many of the pumps used that means very little as the specs can vary widely. I attempted searching for the actual specs of this pump to compare but couldn't find any.

Rig is an Early Bronco with a 5.8L/D60 (balll joint)/40" LTB's

I wish I could afford to just buy a full PSC kit but like most money is tight and do what I have to do to play. As well if anybody has any advice on a steering valve and ram that would be great. Will most likely get a steering valve from PSC. But if any suggestions on rams.... Read through the Billavista article. Looking for simple suggestions and help.
 

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Start with the stock pump and upgrade later if needed. I run a stock saginaw off an S-10 for my full hydro, works fine. One of my Bronco buds runs a stock ford pump and does good as long as he can keep fluid in it (Needs an external res.) Another bronco I know of has been through 2 or 3 after market pumps, they keep failing.
 

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i have full hydro and a stock pump.... works fine for me.

rear steer too, but it's only got enough volume to run one at a time. (front or rear)
 

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Another vote for the P-series Saginaw pump...

Works great for me...

I'm not turning big tires like you...but I'd try the stocker first.
 

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I have a 80s model cj7 pump on my eb with a 5.0 works great more than enough power. ball joint 60 with 42 pitbulls
 

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What size valves? Double ended rams?
 

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The valve you need depends on the ram you buy, and how many turns you want. We can all tell you what cubic inch/rev valve that we have, but unless we have the same pump and ram as you, that information won't do you any good.

Basically you need the ram before you can pick a valve. There's a good Excel spreadsheet in the tech section that you can put in different valve and ram specs and see how many turns lock to lock you'll have.

Years ago I did what you are doing, piecing stuff together from here and there. In the end I wound up replacing everything except the valve one piece at a time from PSC and spending much more than if I had just gotten the whole kit at once. Unlike auto parts store or Surplus center, their parts are designed specifically for what we do, the price isn't bad and their customer service is among the best in the business. I'm not a sponsored competitor just a satisfied customer.
 

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I've setup several full hydro steerings with stock OEM pumps and they work fine. That is for American engine GM, Ford. Toyota stock pumps don't have enough GPMs to amount to crap.

Main reason I like the stock pumps is for replacement if it fails while out wheeling. Just go to a local Parts house and get another pump. Not the case if your running a hi performance pump and it craps on ya... Unless you carry a spare.
 

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I agree PSC is top notch but Ive done allot with surplus center and not once had any failures with their valves or cylinders.

The valve you need depends on the ram you buy, and how many turns you want. We can all tell you what cubic inch/rev valve that we have, but unless we have the same pump and ram as you, that information won't do you any good.

Basically you need the ram before you can pick a valve. There's a good Excel spreadsheet in the tech section that you can put in different valve and ram specs and see how many turns lock to lock you'll have.

Years ago I did what you are doing, piecing stuff together from here and there. In the end I wound up replacing everything except the valve one piece at a time from PSC and spending much more than if I had just gotten the whole kit at once. Unlike auto parts store or Surplus center, their parts are designed specifically for what we do, the price isn't bad and their customer service is among the best in the business. I'm not a sponsored competitor just a satisfied customer.
 

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I have been playing on the Excel spread sheet from Bill's hydro article and seeing that a larger valve will get you quicker steering. Question is how fast is too fast? 2.5 Lock to Lock?

Sounds like a stock GM/Ford pump will keep up with a 6.0/7.3/7.5/9.6 valve?

I will be buying the 2.5x8 double ended ram (surplus center) but on the fence about the valve. What is comfortable for a trail rig? Some street driving to the gas station but always trailered to the trail.

Surplus Center ram plugged into spread sheet.
bore diameter (in) = 2.5
rod diameter (in) = 1.5
Cylinder Stroke (in) = 8

Swept Volume = 25.13274123

9.6 = 2.6 Lock to Lock
7.5 = 3.351 Lock to Lock
7.3 = 3.4 Lock to Lock
6.0 = 4.188 Lock to Lock
 

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Depends on your driving style IMO.

Fast rigs may want ~3.5 turns stop to stop so not to be too twitchy at high speed like 40mph +. I found out that ~2 to 2 1/2 is better for going though the woods fast or climbing a ravine and need quick steering reaction. 3.5 turns had my arms way too busy trying to keep up.

This all just my .02 so...

I have been playing on the Excel spread sheet from Bill's hydro article and seeing that a larger valve will get you quicker steering. Question is how fast is too fast? 2.5 Lock to Lock?

Sounds like a stock GM/Ford pump will keep up with a 6.0/7.3/7.5/9.6 valve?

I will be buying the 2.5x8 double ended ram (surplus center) but on the fence about the valve. What is comfortable for a trail rig? Some street driving to the gas station but always trailered to the trail.

Surplus Center ram plugged into spread sheet.
bore diameter (in) = 2.5
rod diameter (in) = 1.5
Cylinder Stroke (in) = 8

Swept Volume = 25.13274123

9.6 = 2.6 Lock to Lock
7.5 = 3.351 Lock to Lock
7.3 = 3.4 Lock to Lock
6.0 = 4.188 Lock to Lock
 

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Depends on your driving style IMO.

Fast rigs may want ~3.5 turns stop to stop so not to be too twitchy at high speed like 40mph +. I found out that ~2 to 2 1/2 is better for going though the woods fast or climbing a ravine and need quick steering reaction. 3.5 turns had my arms way too busy trying to keep up.

This all just my .02 so...
X2
I used a matched cylinder and valve off a forklift and ended up 4.5 turns lock to lock. It is fine for on the street and rocks and anything slow, but if your chasing your buddies through the woods you cant move your hands fast enough. I'm planning a knicker nob (or whatever their called) for this next season. It hasn't bugged me enough to spend $$ to upgrade the hard parts, but if I was buying parts I would shoot for 2.5 turns for the way I drive. But for the $150 I spent to go full hydro I'm not gonna complain.
 

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If you do use the stock pump, and find that it doesn't have enought power, then put a gauge on your pressure line so you'll know what it is putting out.

I've got a GM style saginaw pump on my Ranger and 3 pumps that I've got from NAPA will not put out more than 1100 psi. I've got a 1500 psi pump from PSC that I'm going to try next.
 

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i have used sevreal diffrent orbitals off of fork lifts withw stock steering pump chevy and ford with a 2x8 cyl from tractor supply they have all worked but some slower than others. a matched kit is the best way but there is cheaper ways if u need its just wont be the best unless u get real lucky. i like fast steering better than slow 2.5 lock to lock works good for me
 

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If you do use the stock pump, and find that it doesn't have enought power, then put a gauge on your pressure line so you'll know what it is putting out.

I've got a GM style saginaw pump on my Ranger and 3 pumps that I've got from NAPA will not put out more than 1100 psi. I've got a 1500 psi pump from PSC that I'm going to try next.
Make sure your looking in the right area for your problem. if you don't have enough power to turn the wheels, then you need more PSI. What is more common is that you don't have enough flow (GPM) to provide enough fluid fast enough to actuate the ram. The quicker the turn ratio the more GPM you need. This shows up when your trying to steer quickly and the pump can't keep up. with my 4.5 turns lock to lock and a stock pump I can't move the steering wheel fast enough to out draw what the pump puts out, and I have plenty of "power" (PSI) to move the entire rig if the wheels are bound up.

Hope this makes sense.

Tire size, ram size, steering arm length and geometry all play into the mix, but 1100 PSI X 3 for the approximate face size of the piston is 3300psi. that is a fair amount of force to be pushing some tires around with.
 

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Make sure your looking in the right area for your problem. if you don't have enough power to turn the wheels, then you need more PSI. What is more common is that you don't have enough flow (GPM) to provide enough fluid fast enough to actuate the ram. The quicker the turn ratio the more GPM you need. This shows up when your trying to steer quickly and the pump can't keep up. with my 4.5 turns lock to lock and a stock pump I can't move the steering wheel fast enough to out draw what the pump puts out, and I have plenty of "power" (PSI) to move the entire rig if the wheels are bound up.

Hope this makes sense.

Tire size, ram size, steering arm length and geometry all play into the mix, but 1100 PSI X 3 for the approximate face size of the piston is 3300psi. that is a fair amount of force to be pushing some tires around with.
My problem is that I'm only using a 2" ram and 40" tires. I have plenty of pressure/flow for normal trail riding/easy crawling/street driving, but I want just a little more for when I get in the big rocks. So with 1500 v. 1100 psi I'm looking at 4710 lbs v. 3454 lbs (on the "big" side of the cylinder) and 3532 lbs v. 2590 lbs (on the "small" side)

I may be swapping back to hydro assist also, since I'm planning to make the Ranger streetable (I bought it built on tons, doubler, etc)
 
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