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Discussion Starter #1
Is anyone running a 22r with a blower(Eaton M60) and propane as fuel? I'm getting different stories from different sides. The engine builder said I won't make 200 [email protected] with forged pistons and a mildly ported turbo head. The propane guy said 200 hp is no problem. The blower guy said he was making 200 hp on a stock motor running gasoline. Toysport says 22r's can make up to 325hp with enough boost. What's the deal? If anyone has any real world experience in this area and isn't trying to sell me something you're help would be greatly appreciated. I need shocks, tires and motor and I'm on the trails.
 

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I don't know about HP but a well built 22r with propane will get her done :smokin: FAWK the blower :laughing:
 

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Rollie said:
I don't know about HP but a well built 22r with propane will get her done :smokin: FAWK the blower :laughing:
have a good friend who designed and built blowers for the 1.9L 4 cyl in the BMW z3 and other 3 series BMWs. They ran an Eaton M62 with a bypass and easily made over 220 hp with 8-10 psi. That was with an otherwise stock engine. There were people running exhaust, intakes, chips, pulleys, etc approaching 250hp and this is from a 1.9L motor. I would think that it would be no problem to run propane a well built engine and low pressure boost and get 200-225. However 325 might be a bit scary. Motor will probably handle it though, they are tough....

might want to talk to enginebldr or LCE and see what they are getting with blowers and or propane. I know that LCE has a blower kit with EFI that will easily get you 200HP, propane should be good for a few more ponies, as I think it is 100 octane equivalent or something close to that....

someone correct me if I am wrong on this....

HTH
 

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I know nothing particular to this application, but I would think since propane effectivly has a higher octane rating than gas, you should be able to run more boost safely to obtain the HP you are looking for. Similar to running race gas in a typical gas engine, the greater resistance to detonation means safer tuning and running at higher boost pressures, which in turn makes more power. Just put it together and see what happens!

~T.J.
 

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85blue4runner said:
have a good friend who designed and built blowers for the 1.9L 4 cyl in the BMW z3 and other 3 series BMWs. They ran an Eaton M62 with a bypass and easily made over 220 hp with 8-10 psi. That was with an otherwise stock engine. There were people running exhaust, intakes, chips, pulleys, etc approaching 250hp and this is from a 1.9L motor. I would think that it would be no problem to run propane a well built engine and low pressure boost and get 200-225. However 325 might be a bit scary. Motor will probably handle it though, they are tough....

might want to talk to enginebldr or LCE and see what they are getting with blowers and or propane. I know that LCE has a blower kit with EFI that will easily get you 200HP, propane should be good for a few more ponies, as I think it is 100 octane equivalent or something close to that....

someone correct me if I am wrong on this....

HTH
I'm not saying that a blower would not produce that power. I just don't see the reason to use it for rock crawling. I'm running a stock 22r now and it's fine, at 240:1. I'm plan on building a stroker with propane. for the extra power. ( I'm carbed now)
It just seems to me that much more cash isnt worth it. Let alone any problems that could occure on the trail. Just my .02
 

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propane turbo

Im running a stock rebuilt 22r with a lc head and cam and a propane turbo set up. The turbo setup i built from scratch with the help of www.gotpropane.com This is also the only place to get a real working propane system for a toy that isnt fork lift junk.... (they also have awsome customer support) The install (of the propane)on my truck is all in this months offroad magazine. GotPropane has complete kits matched to the 22r with all safty devices included....IM running stock compression with a mild 6-8 lbs of boost. I love mine, runs awsome.
 

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Dreadnought said:
TufLuv's Toy is very SWEET. I saw it at Cary's shop a couple of times. The right small turbo on propane works VERY well offroad. Cary also built my brothers turbo toy. GOOD STUFF!! :smokin:
i would be concerned about sizing the turbo and ancillary equipment correctly to avoid boost lag, seems like you have a good setup...If you wanted to crawl down low with a mild engine and then build boost up high for desert driving or the like, you could use a larger one. Cool thing is with a good motor, a turbo or a blower and a propane kit, you have a lot of possibilties and you can set it up however you want. The downside i would say is cost, unless you are really good at doing all this stuff on your own and figuring everything out, i dont think that it will be cheap by any means. Maybe someone else will chime in, but I have seen $6000 22re engines on this board and in comps....personally, I would swap a small turbo diesel and keep the extra dough. The only drawback there would be maybe wheel speed without the proper gearing....

keep us posted
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I pulled the turbo and fuel injection crap off yesterday. The engine really has been rebuilt very recently(the dealer didn't lie?). Everything is completely tight and clean and it has a metal head gasket. The pistons are glossy on top. Screw the rebuild for now! I'm putting the blower on it and running it till it explodes. I'll run it on gas until I can save up a little for the propane conversion. It comes with 2 pulleys so I'll use the 5psi one for now until I get the better octane. I'm making motor mounts and mounting the drive train today. I scored a set of 35's so I just need shocks, hy-steer, and brakelines and the beast is on the trail. If anyone wants to help financially and upgrade their 22r to turbo, check the classifieds or ebay. Thanks for the pointers!
 

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85blue4runner said:
I know that LCE has a blower kit with EFI that will easily get you 200HP, propane should be good for a few more ponies, as I think it is 100 octane equivalent or something close to that....

someone correct me if I am wrong on this....

HTH
I'm putting propane on the 22RE going in my buggy. Gonna order the kit pretty soon here. The guy at gotpropane was very helpful. He told me propane is 110 octane. That much octane would be good for a fair amount of boost as long as the engine could handle it.
 

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I'd love to see the details of someone getting an M62 mated to a 22r / 22re - esp the pulley and mounting setup.

LC engineering does have a blower. I haven't seen their EFI version, but they're designed for "bolt-on" to street motors and I seriously doubt 200hp. The blower their using is inefficient for higher boost applications. It's awesome for torque though..

Why run a blower? You can gear a toy down.. That's certainly a great answer to a small displacement problem. A blower can be setup to provide boost right off idle RPM - esp the positive displacement blowers. I see 5-10 psi at 1,250 rpm or so. That means you can stand on it off idle and have significant torque in range that would otherwise be unavailable to a 22r.

Oh yea, you can cruise at 80mph running 35s, pulling about 3k rpm...

Please post photos and details of an Eaton install.. I'm interested as the Eaton is highly efficient - even at higher boost levels. With forged internals (low compression) and a decent head, 200 hp shouldn't be a problem.
 

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This is my 3.4 I did. I had to use a stand alone ignition system from electromotive. (don't know any other way). The 'pane system worked perfect the first time and seriously kicks azz. Runs way harder than other s/c 3.4 trucks I've driven. High octane with adjustable timing makes for many :grinpimp: :grinpimp: driving experiences.
 

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What kind of range do you get with that propane setup?
How expensive is it to fill up the tanks - and how many gallons are you carrying?
 

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I've read approximately 8-10 hours obviously depending greatly on driving conditions/styles.
Tanks are 8 or 10 gallon forklift tanks.
I think the white 'gotpropane' pickup has a 60 gallon tank in the bed if i remember correctly.
 

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Propane said:
High octane with adjustable timing makes for many :grinpimp: :grinpimp: driving experiences.
this is key. you can take any 22r* and turbo/blower, boost it, dump lots of fuel in it, run av/gas, propane, or whatever you want to, but unless you ditch the stock ignition, you'll probably just :nuke: things because of detonation.

with a stock 22r ignition/distributer setup, you'll at least you'll need to add a aftermarket ignition retard. an MSD BTM is supposed to work fairly well. although i've never looked into it for this kind of application.

unless you just run a really retarded static timing. but then you'll be giving up so much low-rpm torque that it will defeat the point.

the real killer setup would be to megasquirt it with a ford EDIS coil packs and a crank trigger. or with a complete aftermarket fuel/ignition setup (like SDS's kit)

if i ever had lots of time and $ to spare, i'd try to build a 3rz (or 5rz) with a proper sized turbo, and megasquirt providing fuel and spark to it. as long as you had a proper tune to it, i think one would be able to put all kinda power into it. 300hp probably wouldn't be that hard in either motor. although i'm not sure what kind of abuse those pistons will take in stock form. **dreams**
 

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I've ran 22lbs of boost on a 22r with the stock ignition. It's all about the right plugs, and gapping. If a vac advance distributor is used, the ignition can be set to run with milder levels of initial timing advance, so that when boost is applied to the vac advance, it will retard it to the initial setting. It will also overcome the inertia weights in the distributor.
Seems like whenever a toy comes into our shop with ignition problems, and it has an aftermarket ignition, when I return it to stock it cures it.
 

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Propane said:
This is my 3.4 I did. I had to use a stand alone ignition system from electromotive. (don't know any other way). The 'pane system worked perfect the first time and seriously kicks azz.
Propane,

Is that the mixer right behind the air filter in the pic? What kind is it?



I'm running a 3800 series II SC motor with MegaSquirt. I'm plumbing an IC in now, but I've been considering propane as well. Detonation is real hard to stay away from in this heat. I haven't been able to find a mixer that'll work though. Just the type that mount like a carb or TBI unit does. Something like the one on this 3.4 is what I'm looking for.

--Dan
 

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Propane said:
If a vac advance distributor is used, the ignition can be set to run with milder levels of initial timing advance, so that when boost is applied to the vac advance, it will retard it to the initial setting.
oh yea, i didn't even think about that. that would probably be a fairly accurate ignition retard too.

i'd still prefer to have a crank trigger, individual coil packs, and 100% controlable spark timing events :D
 

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OliveToy said:
What kind of boost can you run on a stock 22r on premium?
With stock compression, stock timing, I'd say 3-5psi. Look at LC Engineering's kit - they sell it setup for a stock motor. Last time I checked they didn't have a dyno run where they actually measured the boost, but I've run the pullies that they sell with that system.

As mentioned above, go to adjustable timing (such as the 6AL-BTM) and you might be able to do a bit better... Just remember your pistons are CAST and detonation will melt your motor.

An inexpensive way to build decent forced induction R-series motor is to use the 22RE block with 22RET pistons. You can't use the 22RET pistons in a 22R block without machine work.. The 22RET pistons are cheap (and cast) - but they'll drop your compression.

Forged pistons for the 22r / 22re are around $500-600.
 
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