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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have searched this on various sites. I know there is not a lot on here, so for those of your still sporting 4 squirrels here ya go: Edit It appears that this only works on the early efi, pre 1988.5.

The supra AFM is larger and also has a 3"diameter opening that easily adapts a high flow air filter of your choice.

It is 2.5"x2" inside vs. 2" square on the stock unit.

Parts:
-AFM from a 1982 supra. (any other year is not "bolt in" or should I say "plug-in") Part#22250-43110 & 197100-3020 (both are printed on top)
-boneyard intake parts to adapt the 3" opening into the intake plenum. Plumbing parts also work.
-clamps
-air filter with 3" diameter fitting

I have also modified my stock air box to be a battery holder and moved my air filter to the cool side of the engine bay. This would require extending the wires, but is not difficult.

The swap is self-explanatory, but here ya go. Take off the stock AFM, replace with supra AFM. The supra AFM has 3" diameter openings on both sides, the stock is 2 7/8" going back to the engine and square going into the air box.
I reccomend that you take the intake to the boneyard or plumbing supply store to make sure it all fits before you take apart the stock configuration.

I felt there was a better throttle response and a slight increase in power, though I think my top speed is perhaps unchanged. I don't know if it has impacted mileage. I am not sure how it will impact smog, but I'll update it when I find out. I should note that I had a cone filter on my stock AFM prior to the swap. I also have a header which may impact the results in a positive manner. Other than that I have a stock rebuilt 22re.

I got the idea from Jeff Mosks page, and I think he got it elsewhere. you can read about it here.
Jeff Mosk stuff
Also here is a 4x4 wire thread that has the most discussion and feedback that I have found. Jeff has a little more to say about it there.

Now the pics:

The opening






side by side

I don't know what this adjustment is for shown in the center. Anybody?

If you want to simply add a cone filter to your stock filter you can buy a 4" plumbing cap, drill holes for the bolts and adapt a 4"diameter filter.
 

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The couple Ive used did not have that adjustment. There is one K&N that fits that diameter perfectly, easy on/off.

I dont know if you did, but Ive always swapped circuit boards in these.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
circuit boards and filters

The couple Ive used did not have that adjustment. There is one K&N that fits that diameter perfectly, easy on/off.

I dont know if you did, but Ive always swapped circuit boards in these.
Here is a pic of the engine compartment. For the filter I used filter similar to a k&n. It allows for 3", 3.5" and 4" diameter fittings, and also the top is not solid, so there is better flow. It was also about half the price.

I did not swap the circuit board. The 82 is the only year that doesn't require that according to everything I've read. It runs great as well! The 82 is also hard to find due to the old celica guys picking them up. I had it shipped from a boneyard for $55.

 

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I guess that the larger Diameter is there because it has 6 Cylinders. So the 4Cylinder is not going to move as much air so it is not going to pull the door open as much and therefor its going to give it less fuel.


For the record a 89 Supra with the GE (no Turbo) I believe will be found to be a bolt up to the factory box, has the correct plug and meters out to the same Values.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I guess that the larger Diameter is there because it has 6 Cylinders. So the 4Cylinder is not going to move as much air so it is not going to pull the door open as much and therefor its going to give it less fuel.


For the record a 89 Supra with the GE (no Turbo) I believe will be found to be a bolt up to the factory box, has the correct plug and meters out to the same Values.
from the link I posted above said:
The 22RTE AFM's traceboard was designed to provide a signal to the ECU to fire four (4) 295 cc/min injectors at 6 psi of boost, for a total load of 1180 cc/min (@100% duty cycle). The 5MGE AFM was designed to provide a signal to the ECU to fire six (6) 195 cc/min injectors, normally aspirated, for a total load of 1170 cc/min (@100% duty cycle). In other words, these two AFM's are each designed for virtually identical fuel volumes, so it's interesting to me that Toyota spec'd the smaller AFM for the 22RTE
I checked the napa site for fuel injectors and they give the same part for the 22re and 22rte. Also same parts for the AFM's on both engines.

Also I can't find any info on the 89 supra AFM ever being used on a 22re. It would be a 7mge right? All of the information I could find suggested the 82 was the ONLY afm that didn't require you to swap your circuit board. Would you please post something more concrete so that this thread is not so vague like the others that cover this topic.
 

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I checked the napa site for fuel injectors and they give the same part for the 22re and 22rte. Also same parts for the AFM's on both engines.
NAPA is wrong about the injectors.
The 22RE and 22RTE are different injectors. My understanding is that there are actually two different types of injectors for the 22RTE itself. The 22RE injectors are lower flow than both.

I've heard of 440cc Supra injectors (7GMTE) being used with this swap, but I've never done it myself.

More info:
http://www.well.com/user/mosk/AFM1.htm#AnchorBigAFM
 

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Also I can't find any info on the 89 supra AFM ever being used on a 22re. It would be a 7mge right? All of the information I could find suggested the 82 was the ONLY afm that didn't require you to swap your circuit board. Would you please post something more concrete so that this thread is not so vague like the others that cover this topic.
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=FI&P=94

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AFM/index.shtml

If you look it up the test values are the same. Looks like it would work.
Has the same style square mount so your should be able to use the same air box. Might have to hog out the hole a little but its not reinventing the wheel.

I have seen over and over again where those open elements under the hood are proved to cause more issues then they fix. There was a test where a Guy did a Heads up dyno test of the stock air box on a MKIII supra pulling clean air from under the headlight and then a open element under the hood and the Stock box made more HP because of the much cooler air.

I found that my old Truck had a ping problem on hills with the stock 75 air cleaner that pulled air under the hood that was cured when I put a 85 air cleaner on it that had a duct up to the core support to get clean air.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
NAPA is wrong about the injectors.
The 22RE and 22RTE are different injectors. My understanding is that there are actually two different types of injectors for the 22RTE itself. The 22RE injectors are lower flow than both.

I've heard of 440cc Supra injectors (7GMTE) being used with this swap, but I've never done it myself.
Thanks for the replies. Keep them coming. I found a chart of injector flows.

Code:
engine   flow (cc/min)
22re         200   
22rte        250, 295
5mge         182
7mge         295, 315
7mgte        430
http://www.antikmachine.com/dwld/injectors2.pdf
 

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Can you give the area (length x width) of the factory 22RE flapper? I'd love to know how this compares to the stock 55mm throttle body..
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
It is 2.5"x2" inside vs. 2" square on the stock unit.
From my original post. Translates to 101 sq mm stock and 127 sq mm for the supra. I had pics showing a tape on them, but my camera skewed them so the measurements were not representative in the pics.
 

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From my original post. Translates to 101 sq mm stock and 127 sq mm for the supra. I had pics showing a tape on them, but my camera skewed them so the measurements were not representative in the pics.
Am I math retarded?
2" = 50.8mm
50.8mm x 50.8mm = 2580 sq mm

55mm TB
3.14 * ( 55mm/2) ^ 2 = 2374 sq mm (stock TB)

58mm TB (stock ported and revalved) =
3.14 * (58mm/2) ^2 = 2641 sq mm (ported TB)

Hmmm.. might be some value in a ported TB after all...
 

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Am I math retarded?
2" = 50.8mm
50.8mm x 50.8mm = 2580 sq mm

55mm TB
3.14 * ( 55mm/2) ^ 2 = 2374 sq mm (stock TB)

58mm TB (stock ported and revalved) =
3.14 * (58mm/2) ^2 = 2641 sq mm (ported TB)

Hmmm.. might be some value in a ported TB after all...
This is what Ive calc'd out as well. Essentially with a larger TB, the AFM becomes the bottleneck.

As for the larger door opening less, thereby delivering less fuel. Makes perfect sense. However, my motor tells me it likes the larger AFM. Ideas on letting more air in easier (door opening less, less spring tension)? Maybe the motor runs rich, so leaning it a bit is helping? Maybe my engines typically running between 5-11k feet has something to do with it. Dont know, just know, but I do know, in at least 2 cases, the engine ran better with more power with the AFM being the only change.

As for injectors, Ive found some from a 4age that are ~210 or 215 flow. Thinking/hoping that with a cam, larger TB, larger AFM, that the larger injectors will be needed, and these flow just a bit more. Number I have for stock RE injectors is more the 185-190 range interesting enough. I am tinkering with early 85-88 injection so that may be the injector difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
supra is 3225 sq mm. (I converted units after running the equation:shaking:) So in a stock configuration the AFM itself is not a bottleneck. As stated with a larger tb it is. I imagine it is fairly insignificant, but the larger area, though not continuous, will yield less friction.
 

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My understanding is that this combo isn't terribly easy to tune, especially when going to aftermarket injectors. It's not custom efi and the fuel/air requirements don't necessarily scale in a line.

I'm interested in hearing your feedback on how it works and what you end up with. For tuning, spend the <$199 to get a wideband, I'm sure it will help you in a big way if you're going to tweek this combo.
 

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I know it's a little off subject, but I used a V6 Camry AFM in my 3.0 Runner. It was a little larger, and also allowed use of an aftermarket filter. Also, I didn't have to swap anything out, bolted right in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
wideband o2 sensor

My understanding is that this combo isn't terribly easy to tune, especially when going to aftermarket injectors. It's not custom efi and the fuel/air requirements don't necessarily scale in a line.

I'm interested in hearing your feedback on how it works and what you end up with. For tuning, spend the <$199 to get a wideband, I'm sure it will help you in a big way if you're going to tweek this combo.
Ok, I read as much as I could find about the wideband o2 sensor. It sounds like an NTK sensor is decent? Is there an application or part# I should use? The universal sensors are also very cheap. Any problems with those???

Edit: i searched and posted some more info here since it is really a different topic not specific to this mod.
 

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so i just did a 22r to 22ret swap? would this help me at all? and why would the 22ret have 250 , 295 injectors? why more in some? anyways... i would like more flow ... i think, so is this a good idea?
i have no idea. thx
Chris
 

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Here is a pic of the engine compartment. For the filter I used filter similar to a k&n. It allows for 3", 3.5" and 4" diameter fittings, and also the top is not solid, so there is better flow. It was also about half the price.

I did not swap the circuit board. The 82 is the only year that doesn't require that according to everything I've read. It runs great as well! The 82 is also hard to find due to the old celica guys picking them up. I had it shipped from a boneyard for $55.

do you recall what brand your air filter was and could you show a pic of your adaptor, i've been trying to find a direct fit adaptor for this but seems i'm going to have to custom make one like you had to... let me know please
 

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I use a shielded air cleaner from reactive..i think the part number is sf007

no adapter needed...I think the one in the pic above is a spectre cone filter, most come with adapters..

 

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One suggestion guys - and I've done similar filter mods like above, just to get stuff done and running.

You're putting a lot of time and effort into getting most power out of the 22RE, but you're now sucking air from a really hot area... And the difference between 100 degree air and outside air can make a big difference in power - easily 20 hp, especially if it's cool out...

Best would be to find a cold air source, but not in a location that's subject to mud/water/etc...
 
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