[DURAtotheMAX]

Quick super-newb question. I searched a bunch but found lots of conflicting info regarding this...hard to discern who is right and who is wrong. And almost all T18-into-CJ swaps are done with Ford T18's, not sure if those were different than the CJ T18's?

Buddy of mine just got an '84 CJ7. At some point in the Jeep's life it got a 360 mated to a T14 and Dana 20. The 360 has some sort of [aftermarket] cam (nothing too wild, maybe an RV cam or something), nice aftermarket carb, HEI etc...thing runs freaking awesome, even stone cold it starts on the first crank. I honestly didnt know it was even possible for a carb'd engine to run this well.

No idea what year the 360 is...im a GM guy so I have no idea how to date 360s.

Soon after he bought it, we found out the tranny was junk. 2nd gear was basically more noise than it was forward motion...

We yanked it out (I dont think ive ever seen such a compact light-weight tranny? The D20 weighed more than the trans did) and pulled it apart...2nd gear teeth were completely munched off.

Figured it was a perfect excuse to upgrade to a better trans with better gearing.

We found a T18 out of a CJ locally on craigs list. The guy said it was out of a '79 CJ7 with a 304. It has the granny 6.32:1(?) first gear and reverse is "up and to the left". It looked brand new (painted and everything) so we grabbed it. Oh and it was all of 200 bucks, with a Dana 20 still bolted on the back. :flipoff2:

After getting it back to the shop, it seems the input shaft is slightly smaller in diameter than the T14. The input shaft seems to stick out from the bellhousing basically the same amount as the T14 (measured with a straight-edge across the bellhousing) BUT the main difference is that the pilot shaft snout is "longer", before the splines start...if that makes sense.

So I assume we'll need a different pilot bushing for the crank. I looked on Novak's website and it seems theres a bunch of different pilot bushings available, but im not sure which one to use with the 360...ideas?

Also, im not sure what clutch to use. Obviously the existing clutch wont work because the input diameter difference. Any ideas there? I dont know how similar the 304 and the 360 are...would a clutch from a 304-powered CJ be the right one to use? Or maybe a clutch from a J-truck that had a 360 mated to a T18 from the factory???

Basically the only thing I know is that there is some difference in the 304-360 flywheels and balancing...so we should keep the original 360 flywheel on there.

The rest of the stuff is easy, make a custom crossmember or space the stock one down, shorten the rear driveshaft a bit, etc... Just not sure what to do about the clutch and pilot bushing.

thanks
Ben

 

[atblis]

Go to Rockauto.com

Look up a year and model that has the T14. 68 Cj5 with the V6 maybe?

Look up a year and model that has the T18. 79 Cj7 with the 304

Do they have the same bushing?

Do you have a set of calipers? Measure the input shaft and figure out which bushing sounds right.

 

[ddestruel]

304 powered jeeps didnt come with a T18 from the factory. stealership installs and owner upgrades were common though.

what is the length of the input shaft on the t18. casting number on side and does it have a tin tag held on by one of the top cover bolts?

a ford with be 6.5" long with a short tit ont he end for the pilot bushing. the jeep t18 tit for the pilot bushing is another 3/4" longer at about 7.25" total length. jeep will be 1-1/8 10 spline, ford is 1-1/6" 10 spline

if that jeep actaully had a t14 and not a t150 3 speed then the bellhousing will need to be replaced. if it was a t150 then your conversion will be alot easier. not much to change other than the pilot bushing the t14 that alot of guys used to grab for the amc v8 conversion came out of the 72-75 cj's you can identify it by a 3/4" diameter input pilot tit

 

[CSP]

jeep will be 1-1/8 10 spline, ford is 1-1/6" 10 spline

Negative. Any factory '76-79 CJ T18 will have a 1-1/16" input shaft. As the OP said, it's smaller than the T14 input, which is 1-1/8".


For the OP, any '76-79 CJ T18 will use the same pilot bushing regardless of the engine. The cranks in any AMC V8 and inline six were drilled the same size.

If the existing trans is a T14 the bellhousing will not work with the T14. It's too deep. The clutch fork and throwout bearing is also different than what's used with the right bellhousing for the T18. Hopefully the T18 also has the bull gear bolted to the output shaft as the T14 output is six spline whereas the T18 is ten spline.

Edit: nevermind the bullgear part. The T18 is already attached to a Dana 20.

You'll need different driveshafts. The rear will need to be shorter and the front longer.

 

[charlie4170]

This might help you out for a surprisingly similar setup that I helped a buddy with. He had a 78 Ford T-18 to a early 80's AMC 360 and I believe that this is what he went with:

pilot bushing: http://www.partsmike.com/store/store.php?crn=200&rn=1288&action=show_detail
clutch kit: http://www.partsmike.com/store/store.php?crn=200&rn=1352&action=show_detail

The clutch disc is 10.5" and has a 1 1/16" input, so that should be fine. I am not 100% on the pilot bushing because I am not certain of the diameter of the "snout" on the jeep T-18 vs Ford version.

A second opinion would be good...

 

[CSP]

I am not 100% on the pilot bushing because I am not certain of the diameter of the "snout" on the jeep T-18 vs Ford version.

A second opinion would be good...

They are not the same. That's why there is a market for the part that Parts Mike sells.

 

[DURAtotheMAX]

Got some more info on it...

Input shaft diameter: 1 1/16"
Snout diameter: .665"

Input shaft length to the "first lip" of the shaft cover: 6.5"
Input shaft length to the "face" of the shaft cover: approx 7"
Input shaft length from the end of the shaft cover (how much of the shaft is exposed): 3 3/4"
Length of the snout (distance between the tip of the input shaft and where the splines begin): 1 7/8"

Casting Numbers
Driver Side of Case: T18-1B

Shifter cover:
13-01-097-901
6J13

Tag on the top cover bolts:
5356735
13-01-177

 

[CSP]

Typical '77-79 CJ T18 w/6.32 first gear. You need a T150 or T176 bellhousing and clutch fork along with the actual clutch parts (including the pilot bushing). A clutch kit will have all of it except for the fork.

 

[DURAtotheMAX]

ahh dammit...alright so we DO need a new bellhousing.

I havent tried searching, but is it absurdly hard or expensive to find an AMC T150 or T176 bellhousing?

 

[DURAtotheMAX]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1976-86...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2a158d7df6

Something like that??

 

[mwqpd11]

I did this swap in my 76 CJ 5 with 360 and Jeep T18. I used the bellhousing from my T150 3spd. It is also the same as the T176 andd T18 bellhousing. As far as clutch and pilot bushing, I went to the auto parts store and had them look up J10 or J20 truck, with 360 and 4 speed. Parts worked perfect.

 

[oldjeep]

Typical '77-79 CJ T18 w/6.32 first gear. You need a T150 or T176 bellhousing and clutch fork along with the actual clutch parts (including the pilot bushing). A clutch kit will have all of it except for the fork.

Why can't you use a bellhousing from a wagoneer? They were lousy with 360s and T18s

 

[larrylong]

More T18 info

I did this swap in my 76 CJ 5 with 360 and Jeep T18. I used the bellhousing from my T150 3spd. It is also the same as the T176 andd T18 bellhousing. As far as clutch and pilot bushing, I went to the auto parts store and had them look up J10 or J20 truck, with 360 and 4 speed. Parts worked perfect.

The clutch, bell housing, pilot bushing are the same as a 1979 T-150 3 speed. (304s and 6 cyl are the same) It should go together with all stock factory parts. You will note the trans mounting holes on the driver side are about 2" a part. Only jeep use this pattern. Jeep used a special stud there. You can make one by grinding down a bolt- you will need to notch the clutch fork for clearance. A reverse over and up indicates a 1979. 76-78 were over and down. 76 had a 4.02 1st gear. 77-79 were 6.32 call me if you like- years back I did around 20 of these swaps. Larry 661-645-0349

 

[ddestruel]

Negative. Any factory '76-79 CJ T18 will have a 1-1/16" input shaft. As the OP said, it's smaller than the T14 input, which is 1-1/8".


For the OP, any '76-79 CJ T18 will use the same pilot bushing regardless of the engine. The cranks in any AMC V8 and inline six were drilled the same size.

If the existing trans is a T14 the bellhousing will not work with the T14. It's too deep. The clutch fork and throwout bearing is also different than what's used with the right bellhousing for the T18. Hopefully the T18 also has the bull gear bolted to the output shaft as the T14 output is six spline whereas the T18 is ten spline.

Edit: nevermind the bullgear part. The T18 is already attached to a Dana 20.

You'll need different driveshafts. The rear will need to be shorter and the front longer.

my bad, my 76 came with a 1-1/8 10 spline, after you posted i went out and measured the 79 i have in my garage and it was 1-1/16, my 76 is 1-1/8 and the only reason i know that is because i still have the damn'd 1-1/16 clutch disc sitting here that absolutely i could not make fit and so i had to rob my 1-1/8 from my nv4500.

As to teh special bolt in the bell housing use a wheel stud, and lightly grind the clutch fork to clear, press the stud in from the inside and it will work just fine

 

[DURAtotheMAX]

Alright well the trans is in.

Completely bolt in. Did NOT need a new bellhousing, did not need any spacers/adapters/etc... Just had to put a new pilot bushing in, and get a new clutch. :grinpimp:

Now just have to work out specifics with the crossmember. Not quite sure what the deal is with the stock CJ crossmember/trans mount. On my buggy that I built I just made a completely custom crossmember, so Im newb-confused with this stock CJ crossmember.

I guess theres this flat bar "torque arm" kinda thing that bolts to the trans, and then the rubber mount bolts to that flat bar, and then the rubber mount bolts to the crossmember?

Not sure if the bent-up bar is supposed to bolt onto the side of trans there?

Is it desirable to keep the stock setup with this "mount and flat bar" thing? Or is there some way to just bolt a rubber mount directly on the trans, and then bolt that rubber mount to the crossmember (like normal full-size trucks)???

Obviously we'll get a new mount, is there some other application that we will need to order the mount for with the 360/T18/D20? Or are all CJ mounts the same regardless of drivetrain combo. Worth it to do a poly mount? Or is that perhaps not a good idea with the motor mounts still being rubber/not-poly/stiff?

Front driveshaft will have to be shortened by about 1-2"...which is odd...I would have thought it would need to be lengthened with the [longer] T18...?

Yes, that is a wheel lug nut on the original stock trans mount...no that wasnt us...it was the previous owner!

Pics below...any ideas?

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/penguin1494/beetle/PC183847Medium.jpg

EDIT: WTF I guess the

 

[CSP]

A reverse over and up indicates a 1979. 76-78 were over and down.

That's backwards.

 

[akguy09]

That's backwards.

x2 my 77 CJ is original, and my T-18 is over and up